Mel not doing Well

I took Mel to the vet today because he he had "crusty eyes" that affected vision and his ability to shoot crickets. Also he has what looks like an infection on his crest and he seemed dehydrated.

Now he is back in his cage and he looks like he is really struggling. I am misting every 30 minutes or so and he is lapping, but I'm seriously worried about his color.

See pics before, during and after, plus pics of what the vet did.

Any ideas??

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I just lost my melleri Lola to an infection on her flap and one thing I learned is while they are on Baytril they need lots of water. Do you have a drip going constantly? You might want to do a search on Melleri Discovery to see what they say about Baytril and Melleri and take it to your vet. I wish you and Mel the best and hope he pulls through.
Donna

Thanks for the good wishes.

I have an automatic mister spraying 2 minute durations every two hours in addition to the warm water mists I am doing manually, every 30 - 45 minutes.

I do not have a drip system.

After Lola got ill I put her in the shower on a limb and she drank and drank and drank, licking the water off the shower wall. I noticed though that the water that felt slightly warm to me made her turn dark and the cooler the water the lighter in color she got. I've heard that they feel water temps different than we do. My drip system is a clean gal milk jug with a hole at the bottom. I went to Lowes and bought a quick connect straight valve and hose for ice makers. Just insert a small piece in the milk jug, connect it to the valve and then more hose to drip on a leaf. You can have a drip pan to catch the excess or I made a hole in the bottom of the cage and put a funnel with a hose to catch the drips.

Normally the warm water will make him turn very light green and yellow. I know that typically these warm mistings are comfortable to him.

Right now I'm not sure of anything.

Where did the vet inject the Baytril? If it was over the shoulder area that could be the cause of the blackened area (a bruise). The gray area on the crest could be due to a burn with progressing tissue necrosis. This shows up commonly in melleri. That tissue is already lost probably and will either slough away on its own or should be debrided. If there are no puffy or inflamed edges on the gray patch it probably won't spread further. The Baytril may have no affect other than stress. All the handling at the vet was quite stressful and melleri can react badly to Baytril as you've heard. If Mel doesn't improve I would NOT repeat the Baytril as you don't know just what bacteria you are trying to fight. A topical eye antibiotic would be safer probably. I disagree with the temps the vet suggested, especially the heat spot unless Mel cannot get too close to the light. Melleri do burn themselves and it tends to happen on their crest. The heat will also dry out the cage quickly and hydration is more important at this point. Keeping that warm a cage humid will be harder.

Thanks for the information. The vet injected the Baytril, fluids and vitamins into the shoulders. In the Vet office picture with Mel in the box, you can see the spots.

I agree with your temp assesment and recommendations. I think the vet is more knowledgeable with bearded dragons, iguanas etc. I'm trying to maintain him between 70-80F.

I did some work on the cage to help hold in the heat and humidity. It is just so dry here right now. His humidity is around 30%.

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Do you have a uvb light?

I'm really sorry to hear about Mel. It sounds like you're doing all you can. I hope he feels better soon.

Yes I do have a ReptAid 5.0 18" fluorescent bulb on top of the cage.

His color is improving. There are still dark spots where the injections went but the rest of his body is lighter now.

The cage is at 81.5F but the humidity is stuck on 25%.

As long as you mist regularly and have a dripper going almost all the time you should be alright. The trick is to mist but not mist too much, as my old boss' melleri got a fungal infection because of a constant humidity of 70%. That was without misting. My old boss wasn't a very smart guy however. Typical petstore owner. Just make sure it stays very humid after misting for at least an half an hour maybe an hour, any longer then it won't have the lower humidity spell in between mistings that help it not get bacterial and fungal infections. If you could get the humidity to stay at 30 or above a little for the lowest that would be best though. Hydration is the key when the humidity is low though. I have also noticed that some of the chams I have seen gets shots get black spots at the site of injection. the vet told me it s a bruise/trauma coloring that happens fairly regularly. However it shouldn't even be a big blotch unless there are multiple injections in the same general region. Good Luck.


Justin

Mel made it through the night. I took these pics this morning just after misting.

He appears really thin, except for his bulging adomen. I'm guessing this is from the tube feeding at the vets office.

I setup a humidifier in front of his cage. Hopefully this will raise the humidity a bit.

I'll try to get him to take some crickets today. Also I have eye salve from the vet to administer.

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I wouldn't force the food too hard as he's probably not feeling well (Baytril) and may have no appetite. You can still get some nutrients into him if he's drinking. Give some Pedialyte mixed with water for electrolytes and some dextrose. If he's actively drinking you can squeeze some "bug juice" into the liquids or put something soft such as a waxworm in his mouth as he licks and swallows.

OldSkoolxReasons said:

As long as you mist regularly and have a dripper going almost all the time you should be alright. The trick is to mist but not mist too much, as my old boss' melleri got a fungal infection because of a constant humidity of 70%.

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30% humidity is too low. The problem with "high" humidity is lack of air circulation and poor air quality, not the actual level itself. Chams in the wild commonly experience very high humidity levels but the air isn't sitting stagnant. You want to mimic the daily cycles of higher humidity and a dry out period. A dehydrated stressed melleri will just lose ground with a RH of 30%. One of the nice things about using an ultrasonic humidifier is that the fan does circulate the air. That and a clean cage will tend to prevent mold and fungus.

OldSkoolxReasons said:

If you could get the humidity to stay at 30 or above a little for the lowest that would be best though.

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I was trying to say that if I were him I wouldn't want the humidty to ever get below 30%. I stated that that would be the lowest I would let it get. Obviously it would be good to keep it higher but seeing as he said the humidity was still stuck at 25% I was giving him a more realistic number then say at least 50% or 60% while still having good ventilation. And I know it was not totally the humidity. The stagnant air from having a cage with 3 wood sides and a glass front with only a screen top was probably the more likely culprit. I was just stating the fact that melleri do need variations in humidity from the high end of 70-80 to the low end around 35-50ish every once in awhile. A constant at either end can cause problems, I'm not saying it definitely will but it is more likely.



Justin

Thanks for the pedialyte idea. I'll get some.

He is not eating yet but his color looks much better, he is alert and looking around.

That Baytril injection must be really hard on them.

I think we worry about the effects of injections more because the skin reaction in chams is so obvious. The physical impact of a sub Q injection probably isn't really HARDER on a cham than on another herp, but we can see the effects. But, reactions to Baytril vary from cham to cham. I've seen melleri react very badly to just one dose, and others didn't blink an eye. It could be partially due to the particular formulation, concentration, dosage or the method...injection vs oral.

I hope Mel keeps getting better!

I'll worry a lot less when he starts eating.

Thanks for your help.

There is a really good "Bug Juice" recipe for sick reptiles, written by Melissa Kaplan. Ive used it numerous times and i even managed to keep an egg-bound female, that took a month to lay her eggs from beginning to end, alive using it. Long story. She was sooo weak and dehydrated, and i thought was going to pass at any minute, that i actually held her in a small plastic tub filled with warm water to try to rehydrate her. Hey whatever works right. My husband told me to be prepared at LEAST 4 x, but if they have the will....they can surprise you. Anyway it goes like this:
Numerous squished bugs, yes gross, even to the vet, i used worm guts
egg yolk
just enough pedialyte and eloctrolytes to make liquid.
Stir and serve. I believe it lasts 24 hours but keep it in the fridge and warm before using. Also i take that back it was not written by Melissa, but on an older cham forum. But even easier is a fairly new product called Carnivore Care, I forget who puts it out, threw the bag away, but i believe you can only get it at the vets office. I just had a beardie that was extremely ill and when i took her to the vets he gave it to me. He said a Herbivore Care has been out for quite awhile but the Carnivore Care is new. It worked great and withing the week she was happily chasing crickets. You only need a small amount daily, the vet can do the calculations for you depending on his weight, and that way there is less chance for aspiration. Also i've never needed to use it on a cham, but my beardie like it so much she sucked it out of the syringe on her own. In NH it cost me 18 for a pretty small bag but it was well worth it in the long run. With the bug juice you do need to be careful for aspirating but again my cham really seemed to like it. Keep up the good work and i hope he feels better soon...

I don't have the link because i have a folder just for medical, cut and past, handy, so here is the article. It was on Adcham that i foundi it.



Also with Baytril shouldn't u also be trying to get some Benebac into him? To replace the gut flora that the Baytril is playing havoc with.