bechsgaard
New Member
Hi, i have been hearing that calcium plus is meant to be a daily supplement, is this ok? It does contain vitamin a and D3. Would i be able to do thsi for my Panther, Veiled, Jacksons and pygmy chams?
Repashy Calcium Plus as a Daily Supplement?
- Thread starter bechsgaard
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greengo171
New Member
I was told to use the duster without d3 in it everyday.And use the duster with d3 once every few weeks but please correct me if wrong!
bechsgaard
New Member
there is only 1 type, it has d3 there is no, no d3 option
It has a very small amount of d-3 and a vit&mins. From what ive been told and read, as long as your gutloading. Its the only suppliment needed for most chameleons. I made the switch a few months ago on a couple adults,and some babies. I must say ive only lost 1 babie of the last 59 to hatch in the last 4 months
snipeusa14
Established Member
iv been using this product for over a month and its GREAT! i see way more color in them than before
use for Daily
use for Daily
Sticktongue
Avid Member
Been using it daily with fredo for over a month. Better color, stronger grip and just overall great!
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
Personally, I would suggest Not using it daily. Especially for the Jack.
But, I'm a person who thinks supplements should be supplementary and minimal, not automatically daily. I think a variety of food well gutloaded, with the use of supplements based on need, is the way to go. For example, I would never dust a butterworm or terrestrial isopod with calcium, as that would make no sense. Now if you were for example only offering crickets, and your gutloading was minimal, then yes, a supplement like Repashy Calcium Plus might be useful for near daily supplementation.
I've only recently started using the Repashy Calicum Plus supplement, and only for one of my panthers (the others remain on my normal supplement choices). Buy you may be interested in the frequency (or lack of frequency) that I decided to go with: https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...nt-diary-repashy-experiment-october-2011.html It worked out to about three times weekly. I am not necessarily recommending this, its just what I've decided to do in my particular situation.
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TOMMYBOY72
New Member
I have read in breeder sites and some other places that for Panthers dust with calcium D3- 3 times a week, and a rep vitamin supplement 1- a week. Local pet shop says they will pee out any D3 not absorbed. Like humans, you pass any vit that are not absorbed. Thats why I use whole food liquid vit for myself. I see better absorption. I'm not sure if this relates to reptiles but I would think it does. I also read that too much d3 can cause liver damage in panthers. So I have been doing the 3 dusting with the cal/d3- 3 times a week. I have only had Melvin for a month but he is growing and looks great! I also feed my crickets dry "reg feed" and fresh greens/veg. I basically eat alot of salad. (The crickets are my new disposal system for all my left overs except for spinach and iceberg lettuce.) Then the night before I am going to feed my Cham and dragons I put them in a separate container and feed them cricket gut load/fresh greens.
UVB allows the chameleon to produce D3 as needed so as long as the chameleon is able to move in and out of the UVB at will its thought that D3 will not build up n the system when it comes from exposure to the UVB.
D3 from supplements can build up in the system and lead to an overdose....its fat soluble so it does not go out in the pee as you say...its stored in the body.
Because D3 from supplements can build up we don't want to over do it but rather give them some to ensure that they get some and leaving them to produce the rest from exposure to the UVB light.
Vitamin A is also fat soluble and thus will build up in the system when it come in a prEformed form found in supplements or meat products or sources that contain prEformed vitamin A...including the small amounts they will get from some insects. Beta carotene can not build up in the system since it is a prOformed source and has to be converted to be useful.
D3 from supplements can build up in the system and lead to an overdose....its fat soluble so it does not go out in the pee as you say...its stored in the body.
Because D3 from supplements can build up we don't want to over do it but rather give them some to ensure that they get some and leaving them to produce the rest from exposure to the UVB light.
Vitamin A is also fat soluble and thus will build up in the system when it come in a prEformed form found in supplements or meat products or sources that contain prEformed vitamin A...including the small amounts they will get from some insects. Beta carotene can not build up in the system since it is a prOformed source and has to be converted to be useful.
Canny Chams
New Member
i think giving preformed vitamin a is nessecary, i have had afew chameleons who were being properly supplemented with beta carotene, yet had a vit A defitientcy
I'm not denying that. I'm just saying that people need to be careful with fat soluble vitamins from supplement and what is in what is fed to the chameleons.
Also...D3 and vitamin A are somewhat antagonistic to each other and there needs to be a balance between them to prevent symptoms of deficiency of one or the other.
If chameleons truly can't convert beta carotene then they have to be getting vitamin A from some source in the wild that they aren't getting it from in captivity, of course.
Also...D3 and vitamin A are somewhat antagonistic to each other and there needs to be a balance between them to prevent symptoms of deficiency of one or the other.
If chameleons truly can't convert beta carotene then they have to be getting vitamin A from some source in the wild that they aren't getting it from in captivity, of course.
xanthoman
Avid Member
in a nutshell
imo, a bit oversimplified, but given the nature (and size limitations) of the thread, that is understandable.
EXTREMELY WELL STATED, NONE THE LESS ! jmo
imo, a bit oversimplified, but given the nature (and size limitations) of the thread, that is understandable.
EXTREMELY WELL STATED, NONE THE LESS ! jmo
xanthoman
Avid Member
not quite so simple
imo, merely drawing a conclusion of vit-A deficiency based on being supplemented with beta carotene, is also a bit oversimplified, and imo, is a fairly broad assumption,that is not science based.
the relationship between vitamins, (not to mention how the overall scenario is affected by diet, lighting, temp and supp routine), is extremely complicated and not entirely understood and not unanimously agreed upon.
its not just a simple case of too little/too much of one thing or the other, its how all of the different factors combine together to create the overall scenario. your statement assumes you were properly supping beta carotene, when in in fact it would be almost impossible to to ascertain that in a non scientific environment . plus, imo, what displayed as your assumption of vit-A deficiency could really be one of several other issues in disguise.
for example, you made no mention of what your vitamin-D values were, not to mention the nutritional values of other supplements or gutload and the husbandry that accompanied them.
excess vitamin-D/and its relation to calcium, is believed to cause issues of calcification which would affect how well, or even if, vitamin-A is absorbed.
ie; what you interpreted as a vit-A deficiency, could imo, just as easily be, more of an issue of vit-D/calcium over-supplementation.
imo, it would take volumes to adequately address this issue, which is not practical for the purposes of this thread, but here are some articles to consider, to help illustrate the complexity of the issues.
i would love to quote some of the following articles but fear it may generate some copyright infringement/forum guideline issues, it would also be hard to put in my own words without it sounding as a quote, so ill just post a few links and let everyone deduce what they will.
http://www.uvma.org/chameleon/vitamind3.htm
http://www.uvma.org/chameleon/vitaminA.htm
plus some basic info and other interesting articles on repashy calcium plus/icb
http://www.reptilespecialty.com/store/repashy-calcium-plus-icb-all-in-one-supplement.html
http://dartden.com/feeder-insects-n...frogs-f22/repashy-calcium-plus-icb-t3625.html
for what its worth, i think icb is an excellent, well balanced product, when used conservatively. i used it for several years as the backbone of my supp regimen(in conjunction with a homemade, non enhanced gutload and a fairly diverse diet). just for the record, i used about the equivalent of a matchhead for a half dozen medium feeders (per adult animal) every 10 days with no apparent displays of over or under supplementation. to be honest, i did at one point have some breeder/neonate health issues, so i cant say for sure that it was a perfect regimen, but that could have very easily be attributed to other things. jmo
imo, merely drawing a conclusion of vit-A deficiency based on being supplemented with beta carotene, is also a bit oversimplified, and imo, is a fairly broad assumption,that is not science based.
the relationship between vitamins, (not to mention how the overall scenario is affected by diet, lighting, temp and supp routine), is extremely complicated and not entirely understood and not unanimously agreed upon.
its not just a simple case of too little/too much of one thing or the other, its how all of the different factors combine together to create the overall scenario. your statement assumes you were properly supping beta carotene, when in in fact it would be almost impossible to to ascertain that in a non scientific environment . plus, imo, what displayed as your assumption of vit-A deficiency could really be one of several other issues in disguise.
for example, you made no mention of what your vitamin-D values were, not to mention the nutritional values of other supplements or gutload and the husbandry that accompanied them.
excess vitamin-D/and its relation to calcium, is believed to cause issues of calcification which would affect how well, or even if, vitamin-A is absorbed.
ie; what you interpreted as a vit-A deficiency, could imo, just as easily be, more of an issue of vit-D/calcium over-supplementation.
imo, it would take volumes to adequately address this issue, which is not practical for the purposes of this thread, but here are some articles to consider, to help illustrate the complexity of the issues.
i would love to quote some of the following articles but fear it may generate some copyright infringement/forum guideline issues, it would also be hard to put in my own words without it sounding as a quote, so ill just post a few links and let everyone deduce what they will.
http://www.uvma.org/chameleon/vitamind3.htm
http://www.uvma.org/chameleon/vitaminA.htm
plus some basic info and other interesting articles on repashy calcium plus/icb
http://www.reptilespecialty.com/store/repashy-calcium-plus-icb-all-in-one-supplement.html
http://dartden.com/feeder-insects-n...frogs-f22/repashy-calcium-plus-icb-t3625.html
for what its worth, i think icb is an excellent, well balanced product, when used conservatively. i used it for several years as the backbone of my supp regimen(in conjunction with a homemade, non enhanced gutload and a fairly diverse diet). just for the record, i used about the equivalent of a matchhead for a half dozen medium feeders (per adult animal) every 10 days with no apparent displays of over or under supplementation. to be honest, i did at one point have some breeder/neonate health issues, so i cant say for sure that it was a perfect regimen, but that could have very easily be attributed to other things. jmo
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
That may have been the case in your situation.
I can tell you I've raised many healthy chameleons without supplementing with preformed vitamin A. I've also heard of many who have found some supplementation with retinol critical for their situation.
There are many factors at play, from type of chameleon to types of prey to types of gutload, to what other vitamins are being used, to intake of water...
It would be easy if there was a single routine that worked in all situations, but that's just not the case. We all need to make an effort, think about what prey we are using and what we're gutloading with, and supplement based on need (not on ease of use)
This blog entry lists some info about vitamins and minerals, including a collection of many good threads on this topic:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/65-supplements.html
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