8 month highland hoehnelii
- Thread starter Monzon
- Start date
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
Don't quote me on this however the two kinds of T. hoehnelli may have been separated into two species. I think the two are shown in some of Petr Necas albums. Bruce from Chameleon Paradise had both back in the mid 1990's when they were impossible to find and showed me the difference. However it has been so long I could only ID them now with a key as to which is the lowland and which is the highland kinds.
Again (do not quote me on this) I think the two have been separated to T. hoehnelli and T. narraioca.
Again (do not quote me on this) I think the two have been separated to T. hoehnelli and T. narraioca.
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
OK then. I had not seen anything official on a changing of the species. However Bruce showed me the difference between the two a long time ago and I do not recall exactly of hand what they were. It was to the best of my knowledge something to do with the coloring (more green and blue) hence the reference to Trioceros narraioca.
Monzon would you enlighten us?
Monzon
Established Member
Thanks. The patterns are interesting and ever changing.
I suppose I don't know for certain if this is a "highland" variety. I purchased the parents from an import of Kenyan Highland animals, and I have trusted in that. I know that the range of hoehnelii varieties is extensive. I have always assumed that the smaller size, and reduced casque and rostral (as compared to Ugandan animals) were traits indicative of animals collected from areas higher in elevation than Nairobi.
Wherever their origins, they grew up in the "highlands" of Idaho - so they have that going for them
.
I suppose I don't know for certain if this is a "highland" variety. I purchased the parents from an import of Kenyan Highland animals, and I have trusted in that. I know that the range of hoehnelii varieties is extensive. I have always assumed that the smaller size, and reduced casque and rostral (as compared to Ugandan animals) were traits indicative of animals collected from areas higher in elevation than Nairobi.
Wherever their origins, they grew up in the "highlands" of Idaho - so they have that going for them
.
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
Thanks for enlightening us. I would not mind researching to finding out positively how to ID the two kinds of Hoehnelii.
Whatcamo
New Member
Thanks. The patterns are interesting and ever changing.
I suppose I don't know for certain if this is a "highland" variety. I purchased the parents from an import of Kenyan Highland animals, and I have trusted in that. I know that the range of hoehnelii varieties is extensive. I have always assumed that the smaller size, and reduced casque and rostral (as compared to Ugandan animals) were traits indicative of animals collected from areas higher in elevation than Nairobi.
Wherever their origins, they grew up in the "highlands" of Idaho - so they have that going for them
Go Idaho haha nice to see another Idaho Cham owner and beautiful Cham as well!
Monzon
Established Member
I'm not really a cladistics guy. I do wish that very specific locale information accompanied imports so that I could research daily and seasonal weather patterns to better inform my husbandry. I know that there is at least one hoehnelii book available in german.
My animals: "Idahoes"?
My animals: "Idahoes"?
Monzon
Established Member
Let me know what you find out. I will start drilling down a bit deeper too. Anyone out there? I know Chris A. has worked with this species for years.
Thanks.
ataraxia
Avid Member
Good looking hoe.
Im going out on a limb but i think size has something to do with it. Ive seen huge w/c hoes on a few occasions but typically see smaller w/c hoes from a gentleman here in indiana that gets imports on a regular basis. They have all had the same basic coloration as stated above. Only thing i have come of it is that i would think the low lands would be bigger than highlands.
Im going out on a limb but i think size has something to do with it. Ive seen huge w/c hoes on a few occasions but typically see smaller w/c hoes from a gentleman here in indiana that gets imports on a regular basis. They have all had the same basic coloration as stated above. Only thing i have come of it is that i would think the low lands would be bigger than highlands.
Chris Anderson
Dr. House of Chameleons
There is a lot of evidence that Trioceros hoehnelii is likely a superspecies. Already a couple distinct species within this group have been described and split off (T. narraioca & T. nyirit) and it will only be a matter of time, I'm sure, until more are recognized.
Up until recently, there had been two recognized subspecies of T. hoehnelii: T. h. hoehnelii and T. h. altaeelgonis. T. h. altaeelgonis was regarded as a high elevation form from Mt. Elgon but recently the validity of this subspecies has been question (I don't have my copy of Tilbury's book with me to check what he says about it but I believe he talks about it). At this point, the highland and lowland designation and differentiation between the two will likely depend on what mountain range the specimens originate as their morphological differences likely vary from mountain to mountain. Frequently, however, the highland forms tend to have rougher scalation and are more colorful.
Chris
Up until recently, there had been two recognized subspecies of T. hoehnelii: T. h. hoehnelii and T. h. altaeelgonis. T. h. altaeelgonis was regarded as a high elevation form from Mt. Elgon but recently the validity of this subspecies has been question (I don't have my copy of Tilbury's book with me to check what he says about it but I believe he talks about it). At this point, the highland and lowland designation and differentiation between the two will likely depend on what mountain range the specimens originate as their morphological differences likely vary from mountain to mountain. Frequently, however, the highland forms tend to have rougher scalation and are more colorful.
Chris
Wherever their origins, they grew up in the "highlands" of Idaho - so they have that going for them
That made me laugh. Good looking guy you got there.
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
My assumption was correct. Trioceros narraioca was split off from Trioceros hoehnelii. Thanks for the confirmation Chris. I'm going to have to go to the UC Davis library and see what I can find unless any of you have got a link you would be willing to post on the subject.
The mention that Trioceros hoehnelii has a huge range is news to me. From the habitat descriptions I have read they were only from one mountain. How far does their range extend to?
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Monzon
Established Member
From http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/176315/0 :
Geographic Range
Range Description: This species is endemic to East Africa, where it ranges from Nairobi north and northwest through the high country and across the rift valley. It has been recorded on the top of the Aberdare Mountains and Mount Kenya, and westwards to the Mau. Its only recording outside of Kenya is on the western slopes of Mount Elgon in Uganda. Its extent of occurrence is estimated as approximately 43,000 km2. This species is found between an altitude of 1,500 and 4,000 m above sea level (Spawls et al. 2002).
Countries:
Native:
Kenya; Uganda
Geographic Range
Range Description: This species is endemic to East Africa, where it ranges from Nairobi north and northwest through the high country and across the rift valley. It has been recorded on the top of the Aberdare Mountains and Mount Kenya, and westwards to the Mau. Its only recording outside of Kenya is on the western slopes of Mount Elgon in Uganda. Its extent of occurrence is estimated as approximately 43,000 km2. This species is found between an altitude of 1,500 and 4,000 m above sea level (Spawls et al. 2002).
Countries:
Native:
Kenya; Uganda
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
That was simple enough. Just google the IUCNRedList. Thanks though.
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