A little annoyed at laying bin recommendations

[djfishygillz]

Hello everyone, I am curious as to why everyone always suggest to have a laying bin separate from the chameleons actual cage where they are more comfortable.

I personally have had multiple successes with just having a large deli cup container- about 10 inches deep and 6 in diameter- filled with a sand/soil mixture in their regular cages at all times. They have always laid for me and I have never had an egg binding problem.

I am just concerned because we are telling new people that they should be constantly taking their chameleons outside of their regular cages and putting them into a big sand bin where they are normally more stressed. Also new people normally can't eyeball the best when the chameleon females need to lay.

Of course the forum veterans are great at knowing when a chameleon is ready to lay but when I was new I honestly wouldn't have had any idea when they are ready to lay.

Point of this long annoying post is shouldn't we recommend that the laying bin stays in the cage of the chameleon instead of transporting pregnant females into a bin where they have nothing normally but sand and a stick?

I must admit at times I do put my females into a separate cage when I am positive they need to lay but I think when recommending to new people, I think the bin inside the cage should be the preferred recommendation

I would love to hear feedback!

 

[DavidBuchan]

I think it is generally recommended to have a laying bin inside a females cage at all times just in case. I do with mine even though I have always known when she was due. The link I recommend covers both ways nicely (JannBs blog).
My first cham was happy to lay in her own home......Jasmine though for some reason unknown to me (I guess because it's too high up off the ground) refuses to lay unless she is in an outside 'bin'.

 

[Olimpia]

...Point of this long annoying post is shouldn't we recommend that the laying bin stays in the cage of the chameleon instead of transporting pregnant females into a bin where they have nothing normally but sand and a stick?

We do
The recommendation is always have a suitable laying bin in the cage at all times, but if necessary a laying bin like a trashcan will be a life saver. Not all females like to use their in-cage laying bin and it might become necessary to move them over, but your first and foremost line of defence, as it were, should always be an in-cage bin.

 

[djfishygillz]

We do
The recommendation is always have a suitable laying bin in the cage at all times, but if necessary a laying bin like a trashcan will be a life saver. Not all females like to use their in-cage laying bin and it might become necessary to move them over, but your first and foremost line of defence, as it were, should always be an in-cage bin.

Okay I am happy you made that distinction Herr about the in cage first. I just hear so many people recommend to leave females in a sand box for a day or more and then new people get nervous because they pull the females in and out stressing then more.

I by no means meant any offense also in the post. I just want to emphasize to try recommending the inside laying bins first so that peoples females have an easy laying. Female chameleons already have it hard enough! LOL
And i to have had females lay fast in the out of bin container faster than thr in cage one. I normally just throw a sheet over their in cage bins.

 

[Lancecham]

95% of my females lay inside their cages as I have laying containers in all my female cages. Ocassionly a female will not want to lay in her cage, but will readily lay in an outside bin.

 

[djfishygillz]

95% of my females lay inside their cages as I have laying containers in all my female cages. Ocassionly a female will not want to lay in her cage, but will readily lay in an outside bin.

This is why i think it is overly recommended to transfer the females so much. Almost always works to just have them lay in the cage.

 

[ataraxia]

I do agree with having a set up in the cage at all times for a beginner but also having a lay bin in a cage needs proper upkeep too that i dont see people mentioning.

How many females do you have that lay in the container your describe?

 

[jannb]

I have always free ranged all my chameleons but have always recommend that everyone keep a laying bin in the cage and if they refuse to lay in the cage then move them to the large trash can laying bin. I have noticed that panthers will lay in a small bin but the veileds like the big can better. I completely change mine several times a year and about once a month remove the top few inches and add fresh sand if needed. About once a week I check for moisture and normally need to add water, stir well and dig a fresh started hole.

 

[djfishygillz]

I do agree with having a set up in the cage at all times for a beginner but also having a lay bin in a cage needs proper upkeep too that i dont see people mentioning.

How many females do you have that lay in the container your describe?

I have 7 tamatave females and the 4 or 5 that have been gravid with fertile or infertile clutches have almost all laid in the containers. I love it, no searching in a giant container.

Also I think the females like it because they dig until they hit the bottom then lay, with most containers that are 20 inches deep the females dig forever and that stresses me out :0

 

[djfishygillz]

I have always free ranged all my chameleons but have always recommend that everyone keep a laying bin in the cage and if they refuse to lay in the cage then move them to the large trash can laying bin. I have noticed that panthers will lay in a small bin but the veileds like the big can better. I completely change mine several times a year and about once a month remove the top few inches and add fresh sand if needed. About once a week I check for moisture and normally need to add water, stir well and dig a fresh started hole.

I have only had one veiled female and I think I do recall having to put her in a big container!

Great call on that one Jann

 

[sarahlynne]

if your female lays in her cage will she get stressed and hiss if she sees you digging them up??

 

[DavidBuchan]

if your female lays in her cage will she get stressed and hiss if she sees you digging them up??

Usually not. Once she has laid them her job is done and she won't guard them
If you get too near to her she might be nervous but taking her eggs should not upset her.

 

[sandrachameleon]

Hello everyone, I am curious as to why everyone always suggest to have a laying bin separate from the chameleons actual cage where they are more comfortable.

Not everyone says that. I certainly dont. I recommend having a proper sized cage that can accomodate a large laying bin inside it, either all the time or as needed. I never move my females to a separate laying container/cage, as I feel this is an unnecessary stressor.

 

[sandrachameleon]

if your female lays in her cage will she get stressed and hiss if she sees you digging them up??

Nope. I used to wait until lights out to remove the bin and dig them up away from sight, but realized that this was unnecessary. Now I only remove the bin from a females cage if the female generally hates me, in which case having me near her is a stressor so I move everything out where I can dig away from her.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

I dug out my female's eggs while she was watching so I didn't have to take the whole bin out, which would have stressed her more since its part of her decor. She didn't care. I keep her laying bin in her cage at all times, even when I know she's not gravid, and recommend others do that as well. Sometimes an additional laying setup is needed because they won't lay in their cage but I consider that a backup plan.

 

[Trace]

I’m far more concerned when owners are told their female is gravid when it’s not by inexperienced members and the subsequent panicked directions and misinformation that follow. It not only stresses out the female to be forced to live in a pail she doesn’t need but the owners are driven crazy as well. A fat chameleon is sometimes just that, a fat chameleon.

 

[DavidBuchan]

I’m far more concerned when owners are told their female is gravid when it’s not by inexperienced members and the subsequent panicked directions and misinformation that follow. It not only stresses out the female to be forced to live in a pail she doesn’t need but the owners are driven crazy as well. A fat chameleon is sometimes just that, a fat chameleon.

I feel the need to concur I see people being a little too quick to call gravid quite regularly........
Edit: Heck, I've joined in before..........

 

[djfishygillz]

Not everyone says that. I certainly dont. I recommend having a proper sized cage that can accomodate a large laying bin inside it, either all the time or as needed. I never move my females to a separate laying container/cage, as I feel this is an unnecessary stressor.

Exactly what I was looking to hear.

Also sorry for using an absolute "everyone". I should have said "most new people that give advice to others".

 

[djfishygillz]

I’m far more concerned when owners are told their female is gravid when it’s not by inexperienced members and the subsequent panicked directions and misinformation that follow. It not only stresses out the female to be forced to live in a pail she doesn’t need but the owners are driven crazy as well. A fat chameleon is sometimes just that, a fat chameleon.

Yes I feel like everyone is so fast to call a female gravid and ready to lay. In most cases females will wonder around the cage for 3 days before they are actually ready to lay. And even if they have a laying bin in the cage, they will wonder around for a few days, then notice the bin inside and lay in it. At least in my experience.

 

[djfishygillz]

I dug out my female's eggs while she was watching so I didn't have to take the whole bin out, which would have stressed her more since its part of her decor. She didn't care. I keep her laying bin in her cage at all times, even when I know she's not gravid, and recommend others do that as well. Sometimes an additional laying setup is needed because they won't lay in their cage but I consider that a backup plan.

I on a rare occasion will use a separate laying bin, but that is only because I feel like I can eyeball when a female is going to lay. I am typically right because they will lay that night and pearly whites the next morning.

Jann did point out a good fact though that veileds and possible other species prefer very large containers. I am not experienced much with veileds so that could stand true.