I have a boy and girl panther chameleons. I bought them about 7 months ago and receitly the uvb light went out so she went a couple days with out the uvb light. We took her out in the sun and even put her in the boys cage for parts of the day (we took the boy out first of course) so she could at least get some uvb rays. Then one day I had came home from a dentist app. and she was dark and her white stripe had turned orange. When I found her like that I though that mabe my boyfriend had put them together and mated them but he said he didnt. I also read that females need more D3 than males and it showed a female that had that same markings as my female. Im sorry I cant post any pictures because I dont have a camera or a home computer. I know I need to get with the times! But I have read stuff about girls having eggs with out mating. And if she is carring eggs how can I tell?
a little nervous!
- Thread starter Kasekay
- Start date
SoCaliSon
Avid Member
The best way I believe to tell if she is gravid is to show her to the male. If she is gravid she will turn dark, and will open her mouth and Gape, as well as maybe a rocking or swaying motion. The color change is what you are really looking for when you do this, If you see this behavior but the colors don't go dark... Then she is just unreceptive. Depending on how far along she is... You could try gently palpating her belly just beofre the back legs and feel for any eggs.
Joe
Joe
Nicodemayo
Avid Member
Not true. I have seen non receptive females display the same dark coloration and swaying/gaping motion as gravid females. One of these females, being a female ambilobe of mine, displayed this behavior for weeks and it was her weight that convinced me she wasn't gravid. Sure enough one day i introduced her to the male and she was 100% receptive and they copulated. Kasekay, i would suggest you keep a close eye on her diet and roaming behaviors in her cage. If she is indeed carrying eggs, she will most likely be a ravenous eater and near the end of her term carrying the eggs she will become very restless searching for just the right spot to lay. This isnt always true though because some females will show no signs of carrying eggs and all of a sudden will be found digging to lay. I would urge you buy a food scale that measures weight i grams and plot her weight every few days over the next couple of weeks. If she gains considerable weight over time, prepare her to lay. Panthers can be hard to figure out sometimes. It is possible that she got a glimpse of your male and began cycling a clutch.
Cainschams
New Member
Nico is on it. I have also observed my female looking totally receptive but actually laid eggs recently after. Its hard for me to tell because she stays receptive looking all the way up untill the male is trying to advance. Like Nico siad they are a little tricky sometimes at least mine is. This is where a laying bin in her cage at all times would come in handy. Even if she doesnt use it she would be getting used to it for when she does need it and know where she needs to lay provided the laying site is to her liking. Good luck.
Nicodemayo
Avid Member
Females are hard to figure out sometimes as far as coloration gos and it depends on the female really. Some signs of females are more obvious than others, for example, gravid/non receptive coloration and behavior is obviously set apart from receptive coloration although im in no way doubting Joe at all that his non-receptive female didnt turn dark, maybe his female just doesnt turn dark when shes non receptive (lucky you joe that female of yours makes it easy on ya!). It seems that no one on the hobby can confidently say they know what every color signal means in females or else they'd be lying. Males apply too but Males are much more obvious when it comes to portraying issues through their colors but everyone seems to have, over time, figured out their animals individually because every one is different. An ankaramy female of mine will display alot of teal on her when she is outside but only when shes outside. Locale could have to do with it too cause some females just simply dont throw orange so its really hard to tell whats up with your female from what all of us know. You know her best and the best you or anyone could do is just observe her.
SoCaliSon
Avid Member
I see what you are getting at Nico... and I can only speak from my personal experience, and what I have learned on the forums. I personally have seen females display a darker pattern when unreceptive... But not the same as gravid Colors. My female panther was unreceptive for me for quite a while. I would see the same dark pattern you speak of when she didn't want to go in his cage... But once she became gravid... There was no mistaking it. Most females tend to be incredibly obvious with there gravid colors, and the change is very Fast... and very drastic once a male is in sight. I do say "most" as this seems to be the common occurance while some may behave differently.
Maybe the better way to word my statement would be "The easiest way to tell". I have kept chams for around 10 years, but In my limited experience breeding I have only had two females lay... and each one made it very clear once they were gravid by advertising their colors when the male is present. When I was researching breeding and preparing for the jump.. I called and talked to several breeders to get their input...Including Liddy Kammer, and Mike Monge, and this is the method I was taught by them to confirm if the female had become gravid. While I understand what you are saying and I aknowledge making a weight chart and monitoring behavior are great practices that everyone should try to do, and is actually a more full proof way of telling over time... You should be able to tell if your female is gravid by simply showing her to a male. You know that if she doesn't mind the presence of the boy she is probably not gravid.
How old are they? You should definately have a place for her to dig in there regardless of if she is gravid or not... in case a she does cycle a clutch.
Just my take on it.
EDIT: I should mention in the case of my Female when she was unreceptive... She was under a year... And had never seen a male when I started trying her. I was 99% sure she had no eggs in her. I can definatley see now what your getting at... how someone could mistake the dark unreceptive patterns with gravid colors. It would be good to note that females Panthers turn a pinky peachish color when they are sexually mature and will keep some of this even when displaying gravid colors. Considering this I would say that if you see a Pink with a lot of heavy black barring she is most likely gravid.
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SoCaliSon
Avid Member
I do think Fem Veileds have the most gorgeous gravid coloration. That is a gorgeous girl you got there. We were acutally discussing the gravid coloration of Female Panthers.
Here is my girl Muffin' while she was gravid... She would display like this as soon as I opened her cage and without seeing a male. She did make it pretty obvious...
Nicodemayo
Avid Member
Joe, i am not doubting you at all. In my experience seeing females in non receptive coloration ive never seen them keep light colors but this is not to say it doesnt happen ive just never seen it im just saying it doesnt always happen that way or else it'd be to easy lol. I wish it were. I still feel it is very difficult sometimes to determine weather a female is gravid or non receptive even to most experienced experts and im sure the kammers and mike would agree. This is also increasingly difficult with wc females from what ive heard although i have never worked with wc animals. This is a photo of one of my female ambilobes in non-receptive coloration. Every female is different and some will fool even the best breeders. Heres an example of my female displaying non receptive coloration.
SoCaliSon
Avid Member
Nice looking girl Nic! I see what you are saying... I would say that looks like gravid coloration, So your point is well taken.
Not opposing you buddy ...Just enjoy the convo... Typing it out helps me think!
I was also thinking... In the case of most breeders(and this is the context in which I spoke to the names I mentioned), If you have raised a cham and kept tabs on it's behavior and deveopment, watched her become receptive and paired her... The method of exposing her to the male the day after the pairing is a great way to see if the mating was successful.
Not opposing you buddy ...Just enjoy the convo... Typing it out helps me think!
I was also thinking... In the case of most breeders(and this is the context in which I spoke to the names I mentioned), If you have raised a cham and kept tabs on it's behavior and deveopment, watched her become receptive and paired her... The method of exposing her to the male the day after the pairing is a great way to see if the mating was successful.
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Cainschams
New Member
(Quoting everyones comments)
And this is why it is best to have a laying bin in the ladies enclosur at all times. I will vouch for the uncertainties from dealing with my lady. HMMMMM I hope to get another from the show comming up.
And this is why it is best to have a laying bin in the ladies enclosur at all times. I will vouch for the uncertainties from dealing with my lady. HMMMMM I hope to get another from the show comming up.
BocaJan
New Member
Thanks SoCaliSon. This cham is my very plain Jane when she isn't having a hormone rush. She is just plain green with no markings whatsoever. Then wham! She gets the pretty blue and light green/yellow dots and slashes, then the colorful display when gravid. What a rush! I am such a chamoholic.
Nicodemayo
Avid Member
Nice looking girl Nic! I see what you are saying... I would say that looks like gravid coloration, So your point is well taken.
Not opposing you buddy ...Just enjoy the convo... Typing it out helps me think!
I was also thinking... In the case of most breeders(and this is the context in which I spoke to the names I mentioned), If you have raised a cham and kept tabs on it's behavior and deveopment, watched her become receptive and paired her... The method of exposing her to the male the day after the pairing is a great way to see if the mating was successful.
I hope that my posts were no way offensive! Part of the beauty of this hobby and keeping these beautiful animals is the fact that everyone shares their knowledge and experience and we learn from eachother. Bottom line is, i think panthers can be very difficult to breed sometimes. I feel this justifies the prices of panthers on todays market. If they all used the wham bam thank you mam method the veileds do, it'd just be to easy! But back to the thread topic, cain is right having laying chamber in with a female is a must have, especially if you are uncertain.
Yeah I think I am going to put a laying bin in her cage because she is showing dark colors and her white line is a very beautiful orange color. Also she is looking a little chunky. Yesterday my boyfriend was holding the girl and I was sitting across the room with my boy and usually when they see each other in the open like that she makes her body very tall and flat but this time she didn’t. So I don’t know she is a young chameleon about seven months so just in case that she is cycling eggs I am going to put a laying bin in. Thank you guys for all your help the information was great very helpful this is my first time keeping chameleons so I am very grateful that I am able to ask you guys questions.
