Anybody know about fresh water aqua scaping?

[AnamCara]

Anybody? I'm cycling a tank and it's super cloudy. Other forums suck and are not helpful so I thought I'd bring this to the happiest place on earth.

 

[Beman]

@jamest0o0 @Vinesar21 @CasqueAbove

 

[CasqueAbove]

If it is green cloudy it is alge bloom. If gray cloudy it is bacterial bloom. Neither is harmful, just ugly. Getting rid of it can be trickier depending on the cause. Is it a new tank or has it been set up for a while ?

 

[jamest0o0]

Can you post a picture? Since it's still cycling I wouldn't worry. Do a big water change once ammonia levels are consistently at 0(when the cycle is complete and the beneficial bacteria has established).

If it's algae like casque brought up, your tank might be done cycling and is converting all of the ammonia into excess nitrates(plants love the nitrates, so this is why algaes bloom). Water changes, freshwater plants, feeding less, etc can control that.

 

[AnamCara]

It's a new tank. I set it up Sunday? Monday? One of those two days. (This week has just blurred together.) All the plants are live. No fish in it yet. I have fish coming next week. Here is a pic:

I just got the strips to measure amonia etc... I'll be testing it when I get home from work.

I'm brand new to this and barely understand the nitrogen cycle. Still learning.

 

[jamest0o0]

Might be from the decor/gravel. Did you try a water change? What are you using to cycle it? I'm mostly familiar with cycling saltwater, as I haven't had freshwater aquariums in about 20 years, but I imagine it's the same... in saltwater we wouldn't add living things during the cycle because ammonia is highly toxic and can hurt/stress/kill livestock.

When your tank is cycling, the ammonia is still high(any reading of ammonia is not good for livestock and means the tank is not finished cycling) because there isn't enough bacteria to convert it. It generally will be 0 when you first set the tank up and then as you add something decaying like fish food or a piece of raw shrimp, the ammonia will spike for a few weeks and then drop off, followed by high nitrates. You want to slowly add livestock from here, you could cause another mini cycle/crash if you add too fast, the bacteria needs time to keep up.

So the beneficial bacteria is what's establishing during the cycle. This stuff consumes ammonia and gives off nitrates. Nitrates are much less deadly than ammonia and plants love to use them(in saltwater, you often see refugium tanks... plumbed in tanks full of macroalgae and plants, used to reduce the nitrates in the water while giving beneficial fauna a place to grow and reproduce without being eaten quickly.) Reason for this is, nitrates can be hard on some invertebrates (shrimp, corals, etc) and can lead to ugly algae blooms. A simple way to keep them low is regular water changes, correct food portions, and an appropriate bioload for your tank(so knowing fish/inverts that have a lot of waste vs little waste and keeping the right amount of them in your tank).

Sorry if you know all this, just trying to help incase you didn't. It'll save a lot of hassle down the road.

BTW this is all pretty similar to how bioactivity works in soil. It's the difference of freshly sterilized soil(start of cycle) vs rich soil established for months/years. With well established soil, the bacteria itself will handle decaying matter even without the help of custodians(rare that they too wouldn't be present though!).

Over months and years your tank will continue to establish and stabilize. It makes the aquarium hobby so much fun. In a happy, well established saltwater tank(I know you have FW, but just examples from my experience) you'll see coraline algae pop up, microfauna, and many other things. Some critters like cephalopods, clams, and other cool things only become viable after months and months to a year of establishing after the cycle. So with freshwater, make sure the fish you get are hardier early on as they'll be more prepared if the parameters should swing.

 

[AnamCara]

Might be from the decor/gravel. Did you try a water change? What are you using to cycle it? I'm mostly familiar with cycling saltwater, as I haven't had freshwater aquariums in about 20 years, but I imagine it's the same... in saltwater we wouldn't add living things during the cycle because ammonia is highly toxic and can hurt/stress/kill livestock.

When your tank is cycling, the ammonia is still high(any reading of ammonia is not good for livestock and means the tank is not finished cycling) because there isn't enough bacteria to convert it. It generally will be 0 when you first set the tank up and then as you add something decaying like fish food or a piece of raw shrimp, the ammonia will spike for a few weeks and then drop off, followed by high nitrates. You want to slowly add livestock from here, you could cause another mini cycle/crash if you add too fast, the bacteria needs time to keep up.

So the beneficial bacteria is what's establishing during the cycle. This stuff consumes ammonia and gives off nitrates. Nitrates are much less deadly than ammonia and plants love to use them(in saltwater, you often see refugium tanks... plumbed in tanks full of macroalgae and plants, used to reduce the nitrates in the water while giving beneficial fauna a place to grow and reproduce without being eaten quickly.) Reason for this is, nitrates can be hard on some invertebrates (shrimp, corals, etc) and can lead to ugly algae blooms. A simple way to keep them low is regular water changes, correct food portions, and an appropriate bioload for your tank(so knowing fish/inverts that have a lot of waste vs little waste and keeping the right amount of them in your tank).

Sorry if you know all this, just trying to help incase you didn't. It'll save a lot of hassle down the road.

BTW this is all pretty similar to how bioactivity works in soil. It's the difference of freshly sterilized soil(start of cycle) vs rich soil established for months/years. With well established soil, the bacteria itself will handle decaying matter even without the help of custodians(rare that they too wouldn't be present though!). Over months and years your tank will continue to establish and stabilize. It makes the aquarium hobby so much fun, in saltwater you'll see coraline algae pop up, microfauna, and many other things in a happy tank. Some critters like cephalopods, clams, and other cool things only become viable after months and months to a year of establishing after the cycle. So with freshwater, make sure the fish you get are hardier early on as they'll be more prepared if the parameters should swing.

Omg don't apologize I literally know nothing. When I get home I'll take pics of everything I used. I did add the live plants right away. Also, could you clarify what you mean by "what are you using to cycle it?"

 

[AnamCara]

As far as the decor, it's just a piece of drift wood and gravel. The rest is plants (I'm not sure the name of them...)

 

[jamest0o0]

Omg don't apologize I literally know nothing. When I get home I'll take pics of everything I used. I did add the live plants right away. Also, could you clarify what you mean by "what are you using to cycle it?"

Gotcha, well to start the cycle you need a source of ammonia. This often comes from decaying things. I always added a piece of raw shrimp. Add some fish food every couple days or so would probably do the trick too... in saltwater you could just add the liverock, which would have a lot of die off at the beginning, starting the cycle. I'd just google the best methods for cycling freshwater, it's been a long time for me and most of what I'm saying comes from my reef experience.

 

[jamest0o0]

Oh I forgot, if you have access to any established tanks, like from a friend or pet store... you can add used filter media from that. It will have the bacteria on it and help boost the cycling process

 

[AnamCara]

@jamest0o0 you're the very best help. Thank you so much. The decaying thig is definitely what I'm missing. I think this is why some places recommend leaf litter in addition to the gravel. I just got cheapo black aquarium gravel from Petco. As I am with chameleons, I'm a big believer in giving all my animals boujee lifestyles. I want this little betta fish to have a good home. I'll google more and try the fish food thing.

Thanks again! and thanks @CasqueAbove !

 

[jamest0o0]

@jamest0o0 you're the very best help. Thank you so much. The decaying thig is definitely what I'm missing. I think this is why some places recommend leaf litter in addition to the gravel. I just got cheapo black aquarium gravel from Petco. As I am with chameleons, I'm a big believer in giving all my animals boujee lifestyles. I want this little betta fish to have a good home. I'll google more and try the fish food thing.

Thanks again! and thanks @CasqueAbove !

I'm sure you'll be good! I'm actually setting up a little freshwater tank at my moms house for my kids(2 and 3 year olds) to enjoy and help feed when she baby sits them. Trying to figure out a nice and simple beginner fish that would be fun for them. So I'll probably be doing the same thing as you very soon!

 

[Persnickety Parson's]

I'm sure you'll be good! I'm actually setting up a little freshwater tank at my moms house for my kids(2 and 3 year olds) to enjoy and help feed when she baby sits them. Trying to figure out a nice and simple beginner fish that would be fun for them. So I'll probably be doing the same thing as you very soon!

Cherry shrimps are fun.

 

[AnamCara]

So far this is a disaster.

I was gone for two days and let the tank keep cycling and I got back today and it smells terrible and there was a film on top of the water. I did a big water change but I have some Raspboras I was hoping to put in today, but now I think I won't. Ugh. Heading to the store to get some water testers and ask the fish dudes what's going on.

 

[DocZ]

So the axolotl folks are big on fishless cycling of tanks before you add your axolotl. (If you have kids, they all want an axolotl right now. They’re actually very cool, but I really don’t want to maintain another aquarium. So we got a couple of hamsters instead ).
If you want to go that route, here’s what they recommend:

Cycling your tank
FISHLESS
What you'll need to get started:
*A Completely set up tank. Filter, decor, substrate... These are where your benefical bacteria grow. Adding a heater only for the purpose of cycling can help to speed things along as bacteria grows better in warmer temps. This will need to be removed at the end of cycle.
*Liquid water test kit (not test strips-these are extremely inaccurate)
*Eye dropper
*Beneficial Bacteria. Stability is a good one to use.
*Ammonia source. You can use household cleaning ammonia with absolutely no additives, scents or surfacants. If you shake the bottle and it becomes sudsy, its not good to use! If the bubbles immediately disappear, its fine to use. Please be careful with this. You can also use Dr. Tims Ammonia Chloride. Its made specifically for fishless cycles.

The Procedure:
*NOTE: This process can take weeks even months. Hang in there! Do not get discouraged. Ask questions in group if you need to. Cycling can be intimadating and is just something you have to go through to really understand it. This technique isn't the only one you can use to cycle your tank but is pretty easy and most importantly its more humane than a fish-in cycle.
Once the tank is set up, put a few drops of ammonia in the water. Your goal is to get the reading up 4ppm. Test the water and keep adding drops until you reach your goal. Also add your beneficial bacteria according to the directions on the bottle.
Check the water daily and if needed, add more drops to keep the ammonia up to 4ppm. You will eventually see a spike in your nitrites, this means your cycle has officially begun. Then the nitrite will start to drop and nitrate will increase. What your aiming for is when you test and the ammonia and nitrite are at 0ppm and nitrate is high.
Your next step is to do a big water change (with dechlorinated water of course!), 80-90% to bring your nitrates down. You also want to remove the heater now. I would suggest testing your water for a few more days just to make sure everything is going smoothly begore introducing your axolotl. Once you feel cofident, put them in a container or fish bag and let them float so they can acclimate to the water, then gently let them in.
You will need to still test your water for the next few days after putting your axolotl in. "If" you get any ammonia or nitrite spikes, you can do small water changes until you get the readings in the ideal parameters. Once you know your tank is completely stable you will need to do tests and water changes weekly.
CONGRATULATIONS!

you’ll want test kits for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. I’m sure you’ve seen it but here’s the cycle

 

[AnamCara]

So the axolotl folks are big on fishless cycling of tanks before you add your axolotl. (If you have kids, they all want an axolotl right now. They’re actually very cool, but I really don’t want to maintain another aquarium. So we got a couple of hamsters instead ).
If you want to go that route, here’s what they recommend:

Cycling your tank
FISHLESS
What you'll need to get started:
*A Completely set up tank. Filter, decor, substrate... These are where your benefical bacteria grow. Adding a heater only for the purpose of cycling can help to speed things along as bacteria grows better in warmer temps. This will need to be removed at the end of cycle.
*Liquid water test kit (not test strips-these are extremely inaccurate)
*Eye dropper
*Beneficial Bacteria. Stability is a good one to use.
*Ammonia source. You can use household cleaning ammonia with absolutely no additives, scents or surfacants. If you shake the bottle and it becomes sudsy, its not good to use! If the bubbles immediately disappear, its fine to use. Please be careful with this. You can also use Dr. Tims Ammonia Chloride. Its made specifically for fishless cycles.

The Procedure:
*NOTE: This process can take weeks even months. Hang in there! Do not get discouraged. Ask questions in group if you need to. Cycling can be intimadating and is just something you have to go through to really understand it. This technique isn't the only one you can use to cycle your tank but is pretty easy and most importantly its more humane than a fish-in cycle.
Once the tank is set up, put a few drops of ammonia in the water. Your goal is to get the reading up 4ppm. Test the water and keep adding drops until you reach your goal. Also add your beneficial bacteria according to the directions on the bottle.
Check the water daily and if needed, add more drops to keep the ammonia up to 4ppm. You will eventually see a spike in your nitrites, this means your cycle has officially begun. Then the nitrite will start to drop and nitrate will increase. What your aiming for is when you test and the ammonia and nitrite are at 0ppm and nitrate is high.
Your next step is to do a big water change (with dechlorinated water of course!), 80-90% to bring your nitrates down. You also want to remove the heater now. I would suggest testing your water for a few more days just to make sure everything is going smoothly begore introducing your axolotl. Once you feel cofident, put them in a container or fish bag and let them float so they can acclimate to the water, then gently let them in.
You will need to still test your water for the next few days after putting your axolotl in. "If" you get any ammonia or nitrite spikes, you can do small water changes until you get the readings in the ideal parameters. Once you know your tank is completely stable you will need to do tests and water changes weekly.
CONGRATULATIONS!

you’ll want test kits for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. I’m sure you’ve seen it but here’s the cycle
View attachment 312686

Thank you for the thorough and detailed response! I just took my water to a store and the amonia was at a .6 . They said this is why I had a film. They gave me some refrigerated live bacteria to add to the tank. I'm hoping it helps. I am learning I needed to cycle my tank longer and water change once a week until it was all cycled.

And I thought this would be a new fun, carefree and easy hobbie

 

[DocZ]

Thank you for the thorough and detailed response! I just took my water to a store and the amonia was at a .6 . They said this is why I had a film. They gave me some refrigerated live bacteria to add to the tank. I'm hoping it helps. I am learning I needed to cycle my tank longer and water change once a week until it was all cycled.

And I thought this would be a new fun, carefree and easy hobbie

Yeah, all these have animals have their own special levels of h€!! they can put us through
Film at the top of the water can also occur if there’s not a lot of turbulence at the surface. An air stone can usually cure this. I’ve been using air driven sponge filters for 30 years +/- some sort of mechanical filter. It works well. The bubbles usually break up some of that surface scum, but oils will “float” at the top of the water and dust will always settle their and become very thick if it’s not being scimmed off by a filter or broken up by turbulence

 

[AnamCara]

Yeah, all these have animals have their own special levels of h€!! they can put us through
Film at the top of the water can also occur if there’s not a lot of turbulence at the surface. An air stone can usually cure this. I’ve been using air driven sponge filters for 30 years +/- some sort of mechanical filter. It works well. The bubbles usually break up some of that surface scum, but oils will “float” at the top of the water and dust will always settle their and become very thick if it’s not being scimmed off by a filter or broken up by turbulence

Yeah there is very little turbulence. This is for a Betta and some small schooling fish like Raspboras or Tetras so it had a very very gentle filter.

 

[DocZ]

Understood
I have usually done a heater and a small air driven sponge filter for my bettas in the past. I’m very biased to the sponge filter personally. It’s a great biological filter for fresh water aquariums IMHO

and I definitely agree low flow is the way to go for bettas

I love bettas. Was actually considering another one recently.....

 

[AnamCara]

Understood
I have usually done a heater and a small air driven sponge filter for my bettas in the past. I’m very biased to the sponge filter personally. It’s a great biological filter for fresh water aquariums IMHO

and I definitely agree low flow is the way to go for bettas

I love bettas. Was actually considering another one recently.....

I jumped the gun and have a Betta coming from a breeder on Wednesday. My tank as it is is not suitable, so I'll need to setup a very basic one with no live plants until this one cycles. I've kept them in sh**** tanks as a kid and I know it's not optimal but they did live a couple years. So tomorrow I'll set up the temporary one and hope that the Raspboras help kick start this tank in a couple days once it cycles more.