Bioactive Enclosure Project 24x24x48

[BiotechStudent]

This is what i planned about my 24x24x48 bioactive enclosure for tropical chameleon with mistking and adequate lightning. I would like some advice and tips on how to proceed if I am not following the right path already.

Do I need filtration to reuse the drained water for mistking system?

 

[Jevin]

I'll let others point out more stuff, but reusing the water as I recently learned myself, it needs to be highly filtered, both chemically and biologically. A budget of $400 is a little low I think for a bioactive build. And low dissolved solids water.

 

[Jevin]

This is what i planned about my 24x24x48 bioactive enclosure for tropical chameleon with mistking and adequate lightning. I would like some advice and tips on how to proceed if I am not following the right path already.

Do I need filtration to reuse the drained water for mistking system?

View attachment 312964

Also what depth are you doing your substrate? There's a very useful blog post about bioactive on the forum somewhere, I don't have it handy right now.

 

[Sonny13]

As Jevin mentioned, filtrating and reuse the drainage water will be very difficult and expensive, just think alone on filtrating the poop out of the water.
Also check this https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/low-budget-enclosure-setup.2462/

 

[TayloredExotics]

A few notes;

If you are super set on reusing the water, you can make it chameleon safe with a particulate filter and UV sterilizer. However, that will not remove solutes, and mineral/calcium deposits will build up in the MistKing over time. I'd suggest you just create a catch basin/bucket and dump it every few days. My garden seems to appreciate it!

I wouldn't suggest using earwigs. They are safe and nutritious for chameleons, and are detrivores so would help as CUC, but there are cons. The two biggest ones I would like to point out is
1)They tend to have carnivorous tendencies; as a bug that likes to climb and is active throughout the night, they pose significant risk to your cham
2) They will escape. No idea how, but the flat little f***ers always manage to get past gasketed lids... They will be all over your house :/

You will likely have a hard time keeping millipedes happy (depending on species, of course)... They're pretty particular about substrate. Especially with isopods in there, you'll have to refresh leaf litter quite often. I wouldn't say not to try them if you really want to though!

The bioshot is kind of scammy. Look into compost starter (Jobes organic is a good one). They have the same fungi/bacteria, and you'll get a lot more. I have a lot of issues with the BioDude stuff in general, but that's another story.

For your drainage layer/porous rocks, look into pumice for landscaping (heavier) or expanded clay pebbles (lighter, but a little more expensive)

I'd ditch the sphagnum and go with more wood debris and leaf litter. Your microfauna will thank you.

Let me know I you have questions!

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

I can't speak for the bioactive components, but IMO, $400 is too low by more than half ($1000+ to properly establish a chameleon without being bioactive.)

IMO, Mistking water cannot be reused without re-processing, which means re-distilling or re-RO filtering.

 

[BiotechStudent]

The 400$ value is based on substrate layers, drainage, clean up crew, and flora only; additionally, this is an open budget project, meaning that the 24x24x48 enclosure, hydration system, lightning, timer, hygrometer, feeding routine, and the chameleon itself is not included on the 400$ initial budget as described at the top left corner of the picture previously provided. (The 400$ budget for this specific project of mine does not include the gear already in my possession for the make of the enclosure). Since I am learning English as a third language, I would like to apologize for grammar/vocabulary mistakes in my responses*

Now that we've cleared the budget misconception, let me give you my view and response:

TayloredExotics​

- Earwigs and millipedes are now out of the question

- I will follow your advice about Compost Starter (Jobes organic) instead of using BioShot. Since you've expressed your decreased trust in BioDude's products, I would like to know if this setup would be adequate:
a) Leaf litter + Biodegradables
b) TerraFirma + 1/5 Sand mix (better drainage for TerraFirma)
c) LightWeight Drainage Layer Substrate and ScreenSeparator from NEHERP https://www.neherpetoculture.com/substratesvivariumdrainage#neherpldl

- "I'd ditch the sphagnum and go with more wood debris and leaf litter" - You assume that the use of spag moss would not have positive effects compared with the use of litter and biodegradable only? My concern is to acquire things that are not useful for the enclosure to thrive, so I wouldn't be acquiring spag moss anymore.

Jevin & Klyde O'Scope & Sonny13​

Seems that filtration for drained water is overcomplicating the bioactive enclosure. Now, I am considering using a regular bucket.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

The 400$ value is based on substrate layers, drainage, clean up crew, and flora only; additionally, this is an open budget project, meaning that the 24x24x48 enclosure, hydration system, lightning, timer, hygrometer, feeding routine, and the chameleon itself is not included on the 400$ initial budget as described at the top left corner of the picture previously provided. (The 400$ budget for this specific project of mine does not include the gear already in my possession for the make of the enclosure).

Sorry about that. It's no secret here that I have trouble seeing some things.

Seems that filtration for drained water is overcomplicating the bioactive enclosure. Now, I am considering using a regular bucket.

Whether bioactive or not, surplus water can still be drained away to a bucket.

 

[BiotechStudent]

We are all good and we are always seeking advice, Klyde O'Scope.
I supposed anyone could understand my highly criticized calligraphy and would create a presumption of my intentions without any background information. That's why I needed to clarify a few things in my previous post.
Thank you for the support!

 

[Jevin]

Honestly, if it helps, I did a thread on here when I built my bioactive setup.

 

[Highway61]

Whether bioactive or not, surplus water can still be drained away to a bucket.

Surplus water being drained away into a bucket doesn't sound bioactive to me. Neither do enclosures that have no soil base at the bottom but only potted plants.

 

[Jevin]

Surplus water being drained away into a bucket doesn't sound bioactive to me. Neither do enclosures that have no soil base at the bottom but only potted plants.

The surplus water has to be drained away to avoid water logging the soil. However, in certain setups this is okay, such as setups for amphibians, but you still need to cycle the water for the health of the amphibian.

 

[Highway61]

The surplus water has to be drained away to avoid water logging the soil. However, in certain setups this is okay, such as setups for amphibians, but you still need to cycle the water for the health of the amphibian.

That makes sense but my comment was strictly about a cham bio enclosure. In review, I don't think the OP scpecified if his bio plans are for a chams or frogs?

 

[Jevin]

That makes sense but my comment was strictly about a cham bio enclosure. In review, I don't think the OP scpecified if his bio plans are for a chams or frogs?

First post just indicates a tropical chameleon, I would like to assume it's for a Panther.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Surplus water being drained away into a bucket doesn't sound bioactive to me.

So where does surplus water go? With daily mistings, in time one could wind up with a swamp.

Neither do enclosures that have no soil base at the bottom but only potted plants.

???

 

[Highway61]

So where does surplus water go? With daily mistings, in time one could wind up with a swamp.


???

In my experience If one does end up with a swamp, one is misting way too much water. I have about 6-8" of soil that sits atop a thin level of charcoal that sits on a thin layer of pumice rocks at the bottom of the bag. With all the plants growing in the soil, it doesn't leak onto the plastic tray that the bag sits on. But it can and if/when it does I have found I am simply giving it way too much daily water.

 

[bbyoda]

I do not have a drainage system in either of my bioactive setups apart from a layer of hydro balls. For my Veiled, I fog at night and mist for 1.5 min in the morning before lights turn on and 1.5 min after midnight before the fogger turns on. If anything the plants in that one need me to water them proactively because the soil is drying out. Now, my carpet chameleon is in a smaller enclosure (18x18x36) and isn't being fogged at night, but is on the same misting schedule and actively drinks in the mornings. We'll see if her enclosure gets waterlogged. My first enclosure got totally waterlogged but I was misting a long more and didn't have as much sand in the bioactive mix. And it was much smaller (18x18x24).

In short, putting some thirsty plants in the path of the mister and have a well draining soil mix is working out fine for me.

 

[Jevin]

Yeah, it highly depends on the setup. I have to mist more often as a flogger doesn't keep the humidity up high enough and uses more water. I have a really weird setup for my misting system that is a scheduled but only if needed sort of thing. I drain the excess water, which isn't a lot to keep the soil healthy and reduce the amount of processes happening that occur when there is a lack of oxygen in the soil, which can lead to unwanted odors. Anaerobic processes I believe is what I'm limiting which causes the nasty smells because sulfur containing compounds and methane are produced. However because I drain away the excess immediately, I ensure all my plants are properly watered via the misting system. I may have over engineered the enclosure a touch.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

In my experience If one does end up with a swamp, one is misting way too much water. I have about 6-8" of soil that sits atop a thin level of charcoal that sits on a thin layer of pumice rocks at the bottom of the bag. With all the plants growing in the soil, it doesn't leak onto the plastic tray that the bag sits on. But it can and if/when it does I have found I am simply giving it way too much daily water.

View attachment 313022

Then it sounds like you don't have surplus water.
It's great that you've got it balanced so well. Apparently not everyone does.
surplus water in bioactive enclosure

With my pots on the floor, I mist about 7 gal/week, but I only discard 4 gal/month from the bucket.

 

[Jevin]

Then it sounds like you don't have surplus water.
It's great that you've got it balanced so well. Apparently not everyone does.
surplus water in bioactive enclosure

With my pots on the floor, I mist about 7 gal/week, but I only discard 4 gal/month from the bucket.

I mist less than 7 gallons per week and drain away 5 gallons every 2-3 weeks. I could probably get away with having a sealed system. I have a hybrid system as while any excess water is drained away immediately, it is into a bucket that is attached without a valve so the drainage layer is humid by design. So I've got well drained substrate that is kept moist. I have so far reduced maintenance to pretty much draining the drainage bucket and making sure the reservoir has water in it. Mind you, I designed my setup to make sure mimic nature as much as possible as the water table will be much lower than what most bioactive setups have for a substrate bin and water in the water table typically is constantly moving, which it doesn't in some bioactive setups, but you can make it do that by designing it to do as such using a submersible pump.