Breeder Complaint - Hybrid MITSIO

[ziyacetik]

I recently got an adult Mitsio Pair stated as PURE by (name removed by moderator). He goes with the name (name removed by moderator) both Fauna and Forums. Finally received them yesterday May 13th after waiting for a week. I was so excited about this opportunity finally to be able to work with PURE Mitsio s and that's why I paid him top dollars for the pair. Once I received them obviously Male was not pure based on his look and there is no way to prove about female's purity at this point. I did contact with two other popular and trusted breeders who has both WC and CB PURE Mitsio lines which I am sure most people guess which Breeders that I am talking about since there is only a handful of them out there. I shared the pictures of the male attached with them and they both responded as he doesn't look PURE he is an Hybrid. They also mentioned they heart other complains in the past about (name removed) in therms of misleading customers and selling hybrid animals as PURE for top dollars. Some people might have a totally different story and experience with him but obviously not for me and some others.
During our communication since from the beginning he always claimed his animals are %100 Pure Mitsio s and send me various pictures of the Sires which they look nice and pure I admit.
I tried to communicate back with him right away same day (yesterday) I received the animals and tried to explain about my frustration and requested a return/refund since he provided a live arrival/customer satisfaction + 5 day health warranty. He refused that and claimed his animals are PURE Mitsio s. I am going to take an action to get my money back legally but also want let everybody in the Chameleon Community know about my bad experience and be aware about (name removed by moderator) since he is misleading his customers and selling hybrid animals claiming as PURE. I wish this did not happened and I ended up with a nice PURE Mitsio pair as promised but hopefully my post will protect others and encourage them to think twice before considering doing business with (name removed by moderator).
Please let me know what you thing and share your experience.

 

[azn567]

It does not matter if the sire was pure, as it could have been bred with any female. Or, the female's sire could have been misrepresented. The photos make this male look like a typical ambilobe hybrid mitsio. You should have made an inquiry to other breeders before purchasing the male, if pictures of this male were provided beforehand.

 

[azn567]

You should go to the BOI on faunaclassifieds to deal with this type of situation.

 

[GTSLOW]

(link removed by moderator)

Last activity was yesterday. Hopefully he at least comes on to say something. Considering the price of some of these I'd hope that there would be some kind of integrity with sellers! If not then he totally deserves to have his name drug through the mud.

 

[ziyacetik]

Images that I got prior purchasing

Here are the images that I got from him prior purchasing which was very promising and kept asking a recent picture of the male after I purchased since I did not want to missed the chance but he said he will send and never did and come put with excuses like he is shy, weather is cloudy, I will receive him soon etc.

1- Sire of the female
2- Sire of the male
3- Actual male promised old photo (Based on bar configuration this is not even the one I got)
4- Brother he said he recently sold
5-The actual female
6-the female I received

Also Fauna BOI

(link & photos removed by moderator)

 

[Djturna4thakidz]

You should go to the BOI on faunaclassifieds to deal with this type of situation.

Yes matters like this needed to be addressed on the BOI.

Good Luck!

I too have seen this same complaint with the same seller in the past on the forums. The bloodline of the chams has been debated.

 

[fleetwoodchams]

Yes matters like this needed to be addressed on the BOI.

Good Luck!

I too have seen this same complaint with the same seller in the past on the forums. The bloodline of the chams has been debated.

BOI does nothing that I can see. Please tell me otherwise.
Do any of you go there before you make a purchase? Or do you look at this forums for sale posts or sponsor list and make the purchase assuming everything is approved.
I have had a problem in the past with a vendor. When I tried to address it here I was sent to the BOI
Nothing was done about it nor did I see anything change with that vendor.
I know this forum wants to keep everything jovial and no grips should be posted here.
Nor do I or any members want this to be a free for all, but I must ask.
If there really is a problem, do we as members of this community sit back and allow others to fall into the same by passing it off? just a question?
looking forward to answers

 

[Djturna4thakidz]

Yes I do go to the BOI before purchasing chameleons from someone I do not know.

I believe it is site policy to not discuss problems with chameleon sales on the boards.

IMHO, I think it is ok to address the problems in a post on here, but when it gets into a he said/she said, then it can get really bad.

In terms of dealing with problem sellers, I dont think there is much we can do besides taking legal action by the wronged parties. Like people said, you can write a post on the BOI and bring it up on the forums but if the seller is reluctant to work with the buyer to fix the problem, i dont know what more you can do.

 

[Djturna4thakidz]

It is also a very good idea to befriend forum members that have been on here for years and years. They have dealt with a lot of these people in the past and can usually let you know some background info.

 

[fleetwoodchams]

Yes I do go to the BOI before purchasing chameleons from someone I do not know.

I believe it is site policy to not discuss problems with chameleon sales on the boards.

IMHO, I think it is ok to address the problems in a post on here, but when it gets into a he said/she said, then it can get really bad.

In terms of dealing with problem sellers, I dont think there is much we can do besides taking legal action by the wronged parties. Like people said, you can write a post on the BOI and bring it up on the forums but if the seller is reluctant to work with the buyer to fix the problem, i dont know what more you can do.

Some long time members will discuss these kind of issues in private. Bravo to them and they know who they are!!
Others just ignore then and refer them to the BOI.
To take legal action any vendor usually will cost more than the price of the animals and I am sure these offenders know this.
If this forum allows everyone to sell here without being vetted then I will ask why we can't discuss in a civil way those that have sold misleading or sick animals here on this forum? If they were sold here why can't we talk about it?
Looking forward to discussion on this.

 

[Djturna4thakidz]

I totally agree with everything you have said.

Legal action is just too costly and time consuming for a customer and some bad breeders know this.

I think that if we discuss it in a civil manner on here we should be able to make a difference, if even a small one.

The reason I think the mods dont want us talking about it on here is because it can quickly turn into a vicious mud slinging contest and there is no way to validate any of the claims. It can also have a negative effect on a breeder if the claims are false.

 

[fleetwoodchams]

I totally agree with everything you have said.

Legal action is just too costly and time consuming for a customer and some bad breeders know this.

I think that if we discuss it in a civil manner on here we should be able to make a difference, if even a small one.

The reason I think the mods dont want us talking about it on here is because it can quickly turn into a vicious mud slinging contest and there is no way to validate any of the claims. It can also have a negative effect on a breeder if the claims are false.

So true!
But where else can one discuss issues with breeders. This is the only chameleons forum Let me repeat, the ONLY forum devoted to chameleons and nothing else.
The mods have to balance if a conversation here does cross the line of civility but I have read some pretty vicious threads on this site that were not deleted.
I think there is a monetary factor as well.
No one wants a mud slinging contest i sure don't but if we are THE chameleon forum.
Then this should be a place where honest keepers can come to discuss issues,even issues about bad vendors

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Chameleon Forums is not currently setup to deal with the reviews (good or bad) and inquiries of companies or individuals. It's a complicated decision, but ultimately it was made to avoid the difficulty involved with properly moderating such threads and the negativity that often breeds from them. These discussions frequently escalate into bickering, finger pointing and name calling, and unfortunately good reputations and friendships are frequently damaged by an inadvertent comment derived from rumor or innuendo. As witnessed on other websites in the past, this negativity can easily bleed into the general forums and have devastating effects on a friendly and open community.

When it comes to reviews or disputes within the hobby we currently recommend the Board of Inquiry (BOI) at Fauna Classifieds. They are equipped to deal with these types of problems and have certain standards in place that offer a fair medium for resolution. The herp community in general has been using the BOI for many years now.

Your difficulty with a member of the forums had been noted by the moderators, and has been taken into consideration.