Cham laying eggs!! What do I do? URGENT!

[triponmycreation]

So my chameleon stopped eating 4 days ago and she has yellow spots all over her which is unusual. I read as much as I could about how to deal with females laying eggs so I put her in a bucket that is about 18 inches deep filled with 1/2 sand 1/2 soil with a stick and some fake leaves. She's been in there for 24 hours and she hasn't moved. When I picked her up yesterday she seemed really weak. And for the past 3 days she hasn't been moving around much and if she does, it is with great difficulty. I have the humidifier misting into the bucket and I have the heat lamp over the bucket as well. What else could I do? I don't want her to die!
I'm thinking about taking her to the vet but I feel like that would stress her a lot. (It's freezing outside and I would have to take a train for an hour to get the the vet...sucks being a student without a car).
Anyone have suggestions as to what I should do??
By the way, this might be an important factor...she is only 5 months old and this is her first time laying eggs.

 

[camimom]

If shes weak and lethargic, you need a vet.

Can you post photos of her please?

and fill this out/

https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/

 

[triponmycreation]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Female about 5 months old
How long has it been in your care? 4 months
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? almost everyday
Feeding -crickets, meal worms, spinach 8-10 crickets a day + 1-2 meal worms and she eats spinach at her leisure
What is the schedule? I usually feed her crickets in the morning and meal worms as treats in the afternoon.
How are you gut-loading your feeders? I feed my crickets carrots, spinach and broccoli
Supplements - Once a week I dust some crickets with fluker's calcium and herpevite with betacarotine multivitamins
Watering -She has a humidifier set up right next to the cage and it's running 24/7. Drops of water collect on the screen and drop acting like a drip system. She pees regularly.
Fecal Description - She hasnt pooped in 3 days or peed.
Her skin is bright green with yellow dots.
History - She is usually very friendly but in the past 2 weeks she's been hissing at me anytime my hands come near her.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Right now she's in the sand bucket (1ft wide, 18inches tall) but her usual terrarium is glass with screen. 12x12x18
Lighting - 50 watt day white light & UVB 5.0 10am-10pm and 60 watt night light 10pm-10am
Temperature - I think the temp is roughly 70 - 90 degrees in range. I have a temp gun
Humidity - I have a humidity gage in her cage and it is constantly at 50% because I keep the humidifier running next to her cage 24/7.
Plants - I had a pothos in her cage but she ate it up and it died so I removed it.
Placement - The cage is near an air vent but i dont think it affects the cage.. Her cage is stacked on some milk crates so it's about 3 ft off the ground.
Location - Baltimore, in the city

Current Problem - She's supposed to lay eggs soon but she hasn't laid them yet. She seems really weak..She hasn't eaten or pooped in days. I don't know what to do..

 

[Carlton]

Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? almost everyday
Feeding -crickets, meal worms, spinach 8-10 crickets a day + 1-2 meal worms and she eats spinach at her leisure
How are you gut-loading your feeders? I feed my crickets carrots, spinach and broccoli
Supplements - Once a week I dust some crickets with fluker's calcium and herpevite with betacarotine multivitamins
Cage Type - Right now she's in the sand bucket (1ft wide, 18inches tall) but her usual terrarium is glass with screen. 12x12x18
Lighting - 50 watt day white light & UVB 5.0 10am-10pm and 60 watt night light 10pm-10am

She's pretty young to be gravid but it can vary depending on how she was fed as a youngster.

She has some nutritional problems which will affect her ability to produce or even lay her eggs.

Mealworms aren't a good feeder (not very nutritous and heavy in chitin).
You have been gutloading her feeders with 2 types of veggies that prevent dietary calcium from getting absorbed well ( spinach and broccoli). Plus, if she's eating spinach that will add to the problem.
She hasn't been getting the correct supplementation...once a week isn't enough calcium and there's possibly an overdose of vitamins (you described 2 different vitamin dusts).
Her lighting isn't correct. Chams don't want any visible light at night, and need at least a 10 degree drop in temp so their metabolism can drop enough to rest.

All these problems will affect her normal egg producing schedule and her physical ability to expel them. I think you should find an experienced herp vet who could hopefully give her some help with egg laying. Are you sure she's gravid? Her weakness and lack of activity could be due to deficiency problems instead.

 

[triponmycreation]

She's pretty young to be gravid but it can vary depending on how she was fed as a youngster.

She has some nutritional problems which will affect her ability to produce or even lay her eggs.

Mealworms aren't a good feeder (not very nutritous and heavy in chitin).
You have been gutloading her feeders with 2 types of veggies that prevent dietary calcium from getting absorbed well ( spinach and broccoli). Plus, if she's eating spinach that will add to the problem.
She hasn't been getting the correct supplementation...once a week isn't enough calcium and there's possibly an overdose of vitamins (you described 2 different vitamin dusts).
Her lighting isn't correct. Chams don't want any visible light at night, and need at least a 10 degree drop in temp so their metabolism can drop enough to rest.

All these problems will affect her normal egg producing schedule and her physical ability to expel them. I think you should find an experienced herp vet who could hopefully give her some help with egg laying. Are you sure she's gravid? Her weakness and lack of activity could be due to deficiency problems instead.

I've done a crap load of research and reading online about veiled chameleons and it seems like everyone has different ways of taking care of their pets. I've meshed together different ideas from what i've read. Not to be rude but just wondering what your reference is..? Do you have your own chameleon and how long have you had it for?

And I have a few questions that I hope to get your opinion on...

What kind of gut loading veggies would you suggest?
What other things should I feed her besides crickets?..I feed her horn worms every once in a while

How often should I be dusting the crickets? and how many of them should be dusted per feeding?

What other greens are okay for her to eat?

I'm pretty sure she is going to lay eggs soon...What would you say the signs and symptoms are?

 

[Olimpia]

Hi and welcome to the forum!

Carlton is a biologist or an ecologist, if I am not mistaken, and has been keeping chameleons for decades. I understand your skepticism, however, because the internet is full of bad info and ignorant people. But this forum is a really excellent resource, we have lots of long-term keepers, biologists, vets, and other professionals that really add a lot of accurate, valuable info to this forum.

Most of your questions will be answered here: https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/chameleons/
It has sections for feeding, gutloading, and supplementation that will answer all those questions. It was put together by one of our resident vets with the help of other great resources (the links at the bottom of the feeding page will help too if you want to get more detailed info about good ingredients, the different supplements, and why they matter.

And just to answer at least a couple of your questions here, you can use plain calcium (so calcium that has NO phosphorous and NO vitamin D3) every single day, covering all crickets (or whatever feeder) at any given feeding. Even if you are making each cricket look like it's been battered up to deep-fry, it's very difficult to overdose with too much calcium this way, so supplement with confidence. A light layer is sufficient, though.

I don't know if the resource link mentions it but veileds LOVE hibiscus. If you have access to a hibiscus plant you will be surprised how much she will love munching on the leaves and flowers. They don't tend to grow super well indoors but while they last veileds tend to go nuts for them! And they make great gut-load too. But try fruit too, you'd be surprised by how much they like things like strawberries once they try them.

We recommend having a laying bin in the cage at all times with a female because sometimes the signs are hard to notice, especially the first time. But some of them include:
- Widening of the lower abdomen, around her pelvis. You may even be able to feel eggs if you gently palpate her.
- She may get more restless, start pacing the cage up and down looking for a place to lay. She may start spending a lot more time towards the bottom of the cage because of it.
- She may stop eating in the week prior to laying.
- She also may dig around a little in the laying bin before actually committing to the laying process. She'll be trying to decide how much she likes it as a potential place to lay. I've had females bypass the bin altogether and just lay in their plant pots, ruining all the roots in their plants!

 

[LazardLizard]

New here, but from my years of keeping and breeding vields.............. "3 days of not eating and just sitn on the bottom"(not test digging or anything?)......... Vet attention is required. Sorry and good luck! At this point the stress of the train trip is not an option. Black her out and keep her trip smooth/gentle.
Just my opinion, get the humidifier out of the bucket.(Seems really moist) Is she drinking? Did she have her own cage? If so, put a tub of moist playsand inside of her cage. Moving her to a new location(bucket), can cause its own stress. ( I used an egg laying screen cage, females could still see, move, and have good ventilation. It was in the same room so lighting and temps matched their own enclosures. The lower half was closed off for privacy and there were branches up high to perch on till females were comfertable to go down to lay.)

This is an accurance with female vields that can happen do to their high reproductive rate.

Will she stay perched under her own strength if you put her on a branch? If not...... Vet!

 

[LazardLizard]

Oops, just relized you stated green with yellow spots, has she turned black with yellow spots at all?

 

[Olimpia]

That's true, I forgot to address that at all, but if she's acting lethargic, weak, and listless it's really down to a vet at this point. It could be something completely unrelated to egg laying but by the time chameleons are at that point it is DEFCON 1, and it's important to do something immediately.

 

[triponmycreation]

So I took her to the vet...

They gave me a syringe and liquid calcium. They also have me 'carnivore care' which contains protein 45%, fat 32%, fiber 3%, moisture 10%, ash 8%, calcium 3%, phosphorus 1.2 %, and small amounts of vitamin a, d3, c, and e, copper, taurine, l-carnitine, omega 3, omega 6. It's a powder that is mixed with warm water. The doctor also recommended warm baths. The doctor was not 100% sure that she has eggs in her but she is displaying her mating colors. Also her ankles are swollen which might be why she isn't moving around much.

What you guys think about this 'carnivore care'? Is it safe for my chameleon?

Any other things i should be aware of?

Also how easy should it be for me to tell if she has eggs in her?

 

[triponmycreation]

Oops, just relized you stated green with yellow spots, has she turned black with yellow spots at all?

When she's pissed off sometimes she will turn black and the yellow spots will stay. But consistently she is green with yellow and blue spots for the past week.

 

[triponmycreation]

That's true, I forgot to address that at all, but if she's acting lethargic, weak, and listless it's really down to a vet at this point. It could be something completely unrelated to egg laying but by the time chameleons are at that point it is DEFCON 1, and it's important to do something immediately.

forgive me for being so uninformed but what is DEFCON 1?

 

[Olimpia]

forgive me for being so uninformed but what is DEFCON 1?

Just a dramatization, sorry! It's the highest level of military readiness in case of an attack, I just meant that when you notice a chameleon being lethargic and listless it's an emergency and a vet should be seen. So I'm glad you went to see one! It would have been nice (but more expensive) if he would have taken some x-rays, to confirm eggs or not.

Carnivore care is fine for a little while, it has more protein than chameleons really should be eating but it's ok for a short while.

I don't know if you mentioned this earlier but do you have a laying bin in the cage ready? I ask because it can sometimes be very difficult to tell if a female has eggs, especially if they aren't very many, and it's better to have one in the cage and ready in case she's ready before you even realize that she needs one.

 

[triponmycreation]

Just a dramatization, sorry! It's the highest level of military readiness in case of an attack, I just meant that when you notice a chameleon being lethargic and listless it's an emergency and a vet should be seen. So I'm glad you went to see one! It would have been nice (but more expensive) if he would have taken some x-rays, to confirm eggs or not.

Carnivore care is fine for a little while, it has more protein than chameleons really should be eating but it's ok for a short while.

I don't know if you mentioned this earlier but do you have a laying bin in the cage ready? I ask because it can sometimes be very difficult to tell if a female has eggs, especially if they aren't very many, and it's better to have one in the cage and ready in case she's ready before you even realize that she needs one.

The cage is a 10 gallon tank so it's kind of small, so i put a small sand bucket in there, probably about 6 inches wide and deep. Also, the doctor never really explained how to give carnivore care to my chameleon. Getting her to take the liquid calcium was really difficult... any suggestions on how to feed the carnivore care?