Chamaeleo zeylanicus...
- Thread starter kinyonga
- Start date
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
Nice footage of Chamaeleo zeylanicus.
Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
MissSkittles
Chameleon Enthusiast
Very pretty chameleon. I didn’t realize that there were any chams in India.
Klyde O'Scope
Chameleon Enthusiast
This one I DO recall watching before. 
At the time I thought very similar in size and cask to a panther.
I'm a little surprised these fellows aren't a little more popular in pet trade.
At the time I thought very similar in size and cask to a panther.
I'm a little surprised these fellows aren't a little more popular in pet trade.
Apparently a few were imported once upon a time...
http://www.skypoint.com/members/mikefry/imports.html
http://www.skypoint.com/members/mikefry/imports.html
Klyde O'Scope
Chameleon Enthusiast
Wow. And that's (relatively) ancient history; I'd guess a lot of members here weren't even born then.
A little scary thinking about the numbers since then...
A little scary thinking about the numbers since then...
Lindasjackson
Chameleon Enthusiast
Beautiful Cham!!
MissSkittles
Chameleon Enthusiast
I’m guessing this may be why we don’t see them in the chameleon trade.
https://forestvoicesofindia.com/2021/10/27/an-indian-chameleon-gets-a-second-chance/
https://forestvoicesofindia.com/2021/10/27/an-indian-chameleon-gets-a-second-chance/
Klyde O'Scope
Chameleon Enthusiast
I've got no problem with that.
Lindasjackson
Chameleon Enthusiast
Sounds like at least one country is doing it right. I love chams and I know you all do but I’d rather Eustis was safe in the wild leading his best life rather than in a cage in my living room. I know you won’t all agree and everyone is entitled to their opinion. I love Eustis, don’t get me wrong, he’s so beautiful and interesting and such a character! I’d just rather he could live in a place where I’m not constantly scaring him and stressing him out and he could be happy catching bugs in the wild!
MissSkittles
Chameleon Enthusiast
I agree with you. I adore my chams, but I always feel bad for the various natural behaviors and lives that they are deprived of in captivity.
Lindasjackson
Chameleon Enthusiast
Thank you Miss Skittles. I’m expecting a lot of people to disagree so thanks for understanding.
Klyde O'Scope
Chameleon Enthusiast
I think that can apply to just about any 'exotic' pets. I know a few vets who would be OK with any/all exotics being outlawed. Obviously I'm on the fence with a few of those.
The main objection (according to said vets) is that more than half of exotics keepers either don't know, don't care, or just won't properly care for exotics (and I can even think of a few domestic pet owners who fall into that category).
But that's a personal choice/opinion.
Mendez
Chameleon Enthusiast
Honestly, I think that's everyone's dream. I think we wish everything we ever love(d) would have a chance to live their best life roaming the earth free. Before my dog passed away a couple of years ago, I would imagine him roaming some beautiful grassy hills, running free as a wild stallion. And before anyone states that dogs are not a good comparison, let me say this. Most dogs kept indoors should not be kept indoors at all. So many dogs get depressed being indoors, even if you walk them twice a day. Most of them are still wild at heart. Yet, most of us still choose to keep dogs. Honestly, I think it's more ethical to keep reptiles who are recluse and independent, than keeping a dog that needs companions and brain stimulation 24/7.
But I do agree. It would be nice to have my Jackson's to roam free. But at the same time, he is now 100% used to me. I don't scare him anymore when I open the enclosure. He feels safe. And I never handle him. That's enough for me. It's a decent compromise.
DocZ
Chameleon Enthusiast
I don’t entirely disagree that they’re all better off in the wild. Here’s a forward to an interesting round table discussion about Vitamin A written by Ardith Abate in 2003. She was definitely in favor of Chams remaining wild. A lot of food for thought
“I sincerely hope that the ARAV finds a way to address this issue effectively, as it was the former editor of the CIN, John Annis, who disseminated two poorly researched articles in the early 1990s suggesting that pre-formed vitamin A should not be administered to chameleons. I assumed editorship of the CIN in 1994 and wrote an article on vitamin A in 1997 pro viding the opinions of Drs. Mader, Boyer, Ferguson, Donoghue and others on the importance of vitamin A for chameleons, however the previous articles by Annis remain entrenched in the popular literature, the minds of hobbyists, and even some veterinarians today. I believe that hypovita- minosis A is prevalent amongst captive chameleons as a result, however this is just one of many factors comprising the poor, imbalanced, and unnatural nutrition provided to the overwhelming majority of captive chameleons. I have lectured on this topic, written manuals on feeder prey, and published a series of detailed articles on chameleon nutrition
to little avail. Housing and caring for a wide variety of insects requires knowledge and is expensive and time-consuming, consequently few chameleon owners are willing to go to these lengths. To exacerbate the problem, individuals engaged in
commercializing and promoting chameleon ownership often minimize care requirements to attract buyers, or promote nutritional supplementation products that are deficient or over-sufficient in many nutritional elements, resulting in imbalanced or deficient nutrition. I do not believe this wide spread problem can ever be corrected.
Chameleons frequently become ill for many reasons in cap tivity, but mostly they become ill BECAUSE of captivity. Husbandry failures are the underlying cause and these occur commonly in many areas beside nutrition such as tempera ture, humidity, quantity and quality of drinking water and how it is delivered, hygiene, caging, lighting and provision of UV-B irradiation and sunlight. In the unlikely event these life- sustaining necessities are met adequately, then the other significant factor in captive chameleon morbidity and mortali ty is stress from being confined, handled, or just from being in visual contact with humans. Chronic stress depresses the immune system and increases susceptibility to disease, usual ly culminating in death if the stress is not relieved, and captive-born chameleons are as susceptible to captivity-relat ed stress as wild-caught chameleons. In most cases, only freedom in nature will suffice.
Captive chameleons require very specific care that is both labor intensive and expensive, and very few owners will have the necessary resources and knowledge to keep a chameleon alive a significant portion of their potential life span. There is ample evidence to illustrate that chameleons are far better suited to life in the wild and should not be considered a domesticated animal. The commercial pet trade has consumed more than one million chameleons in just under a decade by very conservative estimates, leaving many wild populations decimated and much closer to extinction. My research into what affects the welfare of captive and wild chameleons since
1991 has culminated in the only humane and ethical solution possible, which is to devote my time and effort to supporting any and all initiatives to end the importation or exportation of chameleons for the commercial trade, to reduce the availability of chameleons as pets, and to discourage chameleon breeding and ownership. I no longer believe that educating the public on captive husbandry will significantly reduce the exorbitant levels of morbidity and mortality in captive chameleons.
I will continue to counsel chameleon owners who contact me to take their ill and injured chameleons to veterinarians, and my first suggestion is always that they consult the direc tory for the ARAV.”
“I sincerely hope that the ARAV finds a way to address this issue effectively, as it was the former editor of the CIN, John Annis, who disseminated two poorly researched articles in the early 1990s suggesting that pre-formed vitamin A should not be administered to chameleons. I assumed editorship of the CIN in 1994 and wrote an article on vitamin A in 1997 pro viding the opinions of Drs. Mader, Boyer, Ferguson, Donoghue and others on the importance of vitamin A for chameleons, however the previous articles by Annis remain entrenched in the popular literature, the minds of hobbyists, and even some veterinarians today. I believe that hypovita- minosis A is prevalent amongst captive chameleons as a result, however this is just one of many factors comprising the poor, imbalanced, and unnatural nutrition provided to the overwhelming majority of captive chameleons. I have lectured on this topic, written manuals on feeder prey, and published a series of detailed articles on chameleon nutrition
to little avail. Housing and caring for a wide variety of insects requires knowledge and is expensive and time-consuming, consequently few chameleon owners are willing to go to these lengths. To exacerbate the problem, individuals engaged in
commercializing and promoting chameleon ownership often minimize care requirements to attract buyers, or promote nutritional supplementation products that are deficient or over-sufficient in many nutritional elements, resulting in imbalanced or deficient nutrition. I do not believe this wide spread problem can ever be corrected.
Chameleons frequently become ill for many reasons in cap tivity, but mostly they become ill BECAUSE of captivity. Husbandry failures are the underlying cause and these occur commonly in many areas beside nutrition such as tempera ture, humidity, quantity and quality of drinking water and how it is delivered, hygiene, caging, lighting and provision of UV-B irradiation and sunlight. In the unlikely event these life- sustaining necessities are met adequately, then the other significant factor in captive chameleon morbidity and mortali ty is stress from being confined, handled, or just from being in visual contact with humans. Chronic stress depresses the immune system and increases susceptibility to disease, usual ly culminating in death if the stress is not relieved, and captive-born chameleons are as susceptible to captivity-relat ed stress as wild-caught chameleons. In most cases, only freedom in nature will suffice.
Captive chameleons require very specific care that is both labor intensive and expensive, and very few owners will have the necessary resources and knowledge to keep a chameleon alive a significant portion of their potential life span. There is ample evidence to illustrate that chameleons are far better suited to life in the wild and should not be considered a domesticated animal. The commercial pet trade has consumed more than one million chameleons in just under a decade by very conservative estimates, leaving many wild populations decimated and much closer to extinction. My research into what affects the welfare of captive and wild chameleons since
1991 has culminated in the only humane and ethical solution possible, which is to devote my time and effort to supporting any and all initiatives to end the importation or exportation of chameleons for the commercial trade, to reduce the availability of chameleons as pets, and to discourage chameleon breeding and ownership. I no longer believe that educating the public on captive husbandry will significantly reduce the exorbitant levels of morbidity and mortality in captive chameleons.
I will continue to counsel chameleon owners who contact me to take their ill and injured chameleons to veterinarians, and my first suggestion is always that they consult the direc tory for the ARAV.”
Lindasjackson
Chameleon Enthusiast
Very well said Ardi! God rest your soul!
Lindasjackson
Chameleon Enthusiast
Just a few years after my second Jackson’s died the CUN closed with a letter being left on the site that said she no longer recommended that people kept chameleons in captivity! I agree but what can you do when you see a poor but beautiful Jackson’s Cham in a 12 by 10 terrarium in pet I with an empty dropper and a plastic plant and him sitting in the dirt with crickets around him. No correct lighting, humidity, or anything conducive to helping him want to live??
Lindasjackson
Chameleon Enthusiast
I meant the CIN. The chameleon Information Network
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
Ardi went through a lot with the CIN and became bitter to the point the hobby was a major negative for her. I am for keeping chameleons in captivity and the hobby. I think when imported with quotas in limited numbers and done sustainably the chameleon hobby can be a great way to make people alert to issues in parts of the world they normally would not have a clue about, plus just a great way to start and stay biology and conservation biology minded. I think with the chameleon hobby there are a lot of issues that can be progressed towards and solved. However if the chameleon hobby was not there a lot of issues would experience an uncertain fate and less certain fate. Have to take care of what you prize.
Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
