Chameleon 911! (Merumontana)

[corsonallen]

Last week I purchased 2 Dwarf Jackson's (1.1)
They were doing great until today, I got home and my male was "asleep" on one of the small plants I have in the cage. When I moved the branch he opened one eye and closed it again..which they were looking a little sunken - so I immediately thought it was dehydration so I tried giving him water and put him in the shower with barely warm water running close, but not on him. Not much happened, his eyes remained closed and then he started opening and closing his mouth in a weird manner and then would lift off the ground his whole body would seem to expand very large and a small "hiss" for lack of a better word would come out..almost looked like he was trying to throw up. Ive since removed him and put him on some paper towels in his cage with the light on him. I at first thought maybe it was due to an impaction since I had some reptibark in the cage which he may have swallowed, but I'm now thinking a URI. He isn't going to make it I think, his breaths are shallow and mouth isn't closing, and he is laying mostly limp. This has occurred within 24 hours approx. as he was looking and moving pretty good yesterday. Actually he is now dead - since Ive been writing this. Anyone have any ideas other than a URI or impaction? I keep the cage between 63-80 and pretty humid as they are mountain dwelling. Inside the cage were some old grape vines I had collected outside, a moss covered rock, and a small plant. Water was given through a dripper as well as mistings. 1/4'' crickets not dusted were fed. I had the fan in my room off for the last two days because it was getting chilly and I did not want to create a draft at night. That may have caused a URI I'm not sure. He was previously eating plenty and drinking as well. Please help! I don't want to lose my female as well...

 

[Justin Carl]

Seems to be what is happening.
We had a male Meru die earlier this week.
Were they housed together?

We can start from the top by filling this out.
More details the better.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - What kind of cage are you using? What is the size?
Lighting - What kind of lighting are you using? How long do you keep the lights on during the day?
Temperature - What temperature range have you created? Basking spot temp? What is the temperature at night?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Location - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas?

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon.
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What kind of schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What are you dusting your feeders with and what kind of schedule do you use?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings.
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
Current Problem - The current problem that you are concerned about.

 

[rcmike]

I had a male die this week too. Mine was fine that morning and I got home from work early at about 11 and he was on the bottom. I picked him up and he started thrashing around and in about 5 min. he was dead. I also got a female and am keeping a very close eye on her.

 

[chamlover]

I feel so bad for everyone. I lost a female veiled this week too. It seems the more we learn the less we know. Do any of you guys know what happened to yours?

Debby

 

[rcmike]

I'm still trying to figure it out. Here is the thread on mine. https://www.chameleonforums.com/my-new-jacksons-9808/

 

[corsonallen]

Reptibark

I'm convinced that it was the Reptibark that got my male- the whole thing happened so fast that I find it hard to believe it would be any sort of infection plus earlier while I was attending to the male I witnessed my female nail a cricket and get a piece of the bark and I couldn't get it out of her mouth before she swallowed it - so I may lose my female if I cant get her to pass it...I currently have paper towels on the bottom. DO NOT USE REPTIBARK - i should have known better - I used it for my veileds before and had no problem, but they are also a much larger chameleon than the dwarfs. I wish I had taken a picture of the male before he died - perfect example of a male meru jacksons - blue on either sides, bright lemon head, and very large horns...

 

[Trace]

The only way either of you will know for sure what happened to your Meru's is by having a necropsy done by a qualified veterinarian. We members can only guess as to what the problem was. Mike, I saw your necropsy pic on the other thread and didn't see anything too unusual but it's been a looooooooooooooong time since I worked in an animal hospital and/or did any necropsies myself.

That said, I'm willing to bet that both those males (and the females too for that matter) were WC specimens and right there is a world of troubles for a new keeper. They are kept in horrible conditions waiting to be exported. They come in hungry and dehydrated. Parasite ridden. Injured. Debilitated. Chameleons can outwardly mask a lot of problems in stressful situations and when they finally reach your cage, they succumb to one of them. The deaths of these two males does not surprise me.

Now I'm not pointing the finger at either of you Mike or Allen. It sounds like both of you had some previous chameleon experience and you did the best you could for a very difficult species to keep in captivity. As the days go by, I'm becoming increasingly more anti-exporting of chameleons. Last year 500 merumontanus were exported from Tanzania. A fairly small number really. I bet only a handful of those are alive right now and even less managed to reproduce successfully in captivity. There are species that are exported in the high 1000's annually with same "in captivity" results. It's sad that these animals have to die because we can't figure out how to keep them properly. I'll get off my soapbox now.

I'm sorry for your respective losses. The Meru's are a really neat species to work with. I hope your females bring many years of joy.

Trace

 

[rcmike]

With mine I thought they were regular Jackson's until I was told they weren't. I probably wouldn't have gotten them if I had known they were more difficult. I had experience with veileds but wanted something different this time around. I agree I will probably never know for sure what happened. I am torn as to whether to get another male or not. Has anyone seen CB's for sale anywhere? I would love to find one. I would like to get them breeding and hopefully raise some of them so there could be an alternative to wild ones. They are the most beautiful Jackson's I have ever seen.

 

[DrewNYC]

well i too purchased a new WC female giant fishers from last weeks show on long island, i new she was alttile dehydrated and not kept properly. just speaking to the seller i too would probably say importing without guidelines is not a good thing but she was the only one there (female) and so cheap (i think it is such a shame their lives are only worth a few dollars to some importers/sellers) i was hoping i could bring her back to health, i started showering her as soon as she got home and thirsty she was, i kept a constant dripper, she started eating, her eyes started bulging (in a good way, she was rehydrating) i did my morning check and feeding on all my guys before i went to work yesterday, she looked good, i came home and she was dead.
i know there was probably nothing i could do other than what i did and i am sure her illness or reason for death was already a factor i did not know about.
RIP!!!!

drew

 

[Dean Pulcini]

I agree with Trace most montane species are WC and carry a heavy parasite load and coupled with the stress of capture and poor husbandry of some chameleon dealers they die when you get them.Thats why there are no deals when it comes to WC caught chameleons. Sure there cheap to buy but they should be treated by a vet after receiving and also isolated from other chameleons in your collection.

 

[corsonallen]

Just wanted to update if anyone was interested - my female ended up passing the piece of Reptibark a few days ago - I'm still amazed that she was able to do it - she's doing pretty good now - eating plenty , drinking, etc..no more reptibark for me...

 

[kinyonga]

Good to hear that she passed the bark.

 

[Trace]

Good to hear that she passed the bark.

Do you have a place for her to dig in the cage in case she is carrying eggs?

Would there be a need for a lay bucket for a merumontanus?

Trace

 

[kinyonga]

I editted it out...I guess my flu is affecting my ability to think more than I thought it was! UUUrrggghhhh! Thanks for bringing me back to reality, Trace!

 

[Trace]

I editted it out...I guess my flu is affecting my ability to think more than I thought it was! UUUrrggghhhh! Thanks for bringing me back to reality, Trace!

Believe you me, I appreciate the sentiment behind your original post and why you said that.

Get well soon!
Trace