Chameleon brown peeling on back????????

[TOVIV]

I am really worried about my little guy.

He has been peeling a lot lately (past month), in different sections of course, one day its legs one its head, etc etc.

Well I try to mist him a couple times a day, hoping to aid the process,
but lately his back area has turned brownish... it almost looks like maybe some
puss or ooze was trying to come out if you look closely. It has been this way for probably 2 weeks and hasn't healed...

Does anyone have any idea what's going on? His appetite has been lower lately, especially for crickets... If I go out and buy a horn worm, he's usually quick to munch it up, but I try not to make that the MAIN part of the diet as I have heard they a bit high in fat. I reserve them for treats in a way.

His cage is the bigger sized mesh cage (like 5 feet tall), and he gets a dripper for water every day it drips a majority of the work day.
It falls on multiple leaves.

His temps vary 75ish near bottom, 80ish near top, and directly in the basking spot about 90 or so... (sometimes higher if room is hot that day).

At night all lights are out but it's usually 11pm till 9 am.

I have been misting more and more past 2-3 days to see if it helps, but nothing...

ideas? thoughts?

SEE PICS BELOW, can take more/diff angles, etc if asked to! THANKS!

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[Lathis]

That looks like a TERRIBLE burn. You need to:

1) Re-check your basking temperature ASAP. It's probably hotter than you realize. Use a different thermometer and see what the readings are.

2) Take him to a vet ASAP.

This is a very common location for chameleons to get a burn. You need to move the lamp further away from the perch (or vice versa) or use a lower watt bulb to keep him from re-injuring this area. Especially with the temperatures being cooler now, he may bask longer trying to get his core temperature up and not realize that he is being burned.

Don't pick at it. Go to a vet. The vet have have to clean the dead flesh off and may give you an ointment to apply.

 

[TOVIV]

That looks like a TERRIBLE burn. You need to:

1) Re-check your basking temperature ASAP. It's probably hotter than you realize. Use a different thermometer and see what the readings are.

2) Take him to a vet ASAP.

This is a very common location for chameleons to get a burn. You need to move the lamp further away from the perch (or vice versa) or use a lower watt bulb to keep him from re-injuring this area. Especially with the temperatures being cooler now, he may bask longer trying to get his core temperature up and not realize that he is being burned.

Don't pick at it. Go to a vet. The vet have have to clean the dead flesh off and may give you an ointment to apply.

Ill take him to the vet as soon as I can, but I checked w another temp gauge and even held it about an inch or more than he is tall, so even closer to the light and it was only hitting high 95-100 (one said 95, one said 100). that's higher/closer by a bit than he would be to it... I don't get how he would get burned...

Very confusing.


edit: also, I haven't touched him since it appeared, so I definitely will be careful about moving and touching him. He's a cranky guy, usually takes a lot of patience to get him out of the cage so I only take him out maybe once a week (slowly trying to get him used to me, I know it takes months and patience)

 

[Lathis]

It really looks like a burn. The location, the way the flesh turned brown, and the loss of the back spikes are all classic burn symptoms. Even the top of his casque looks burned but not as badly.

I've never had a veiled, but 90-95 degrees seems right for basking. Is there any place at all where he could be getting too close to the lamp?

Poor little guy.

Edit: Can you post some photos of your enclosure? Maybe he is accessing something that you don't realize.

 

[Lathis]

Welcome to the forums, by the way.

 

[camimom]

those definitely look like burns.

and 90+ is too warm for a veiled. especially when he's getting burned like that.

I keep my veiled no higher than 88, even during the summer, at least inside.

Your temps should never hit higher than 95 in the cage.

That means your lights are too close and is heating up the screen causing the burns.

you need to see a vet.

until then, you can use polysporin without the pain med part to cover it until you get to a vet.

oh and horns aren't high in fat, they are high in water, so they are great for hydration. just have no real nutrients.

 

[TOVIV]

Ignore the little lamp on the cricket box, it isnt on, its an extra that I was moving earlier. It does not get used.

The higher branch going across is his basking area.

also ignore the black gauge at the bottom as I just put that in today to see humidity (room mate had extra), so it is temporary.

There are no other sources of heat near him, nothing is next to the cage on the left and behind it/to the right is a wall.


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Edit: didn't know 90+ could be high for a basking spot. Always got mixed answers on that, but if this turns out confirmed to be a burn, then I will know forever.

I feel so bad for the guy. He's only maybe 6 months or so.

 

[camimom]

what kind of light bulb are you using for basking?

In regards to your cage, you need to add a lot more foliage at the top and the middle for him to feel comfortable and safe. may also be why he sits so close to the bulb.

you can do several things to lower temps-
raise the bulb off the cage
lower the wattage
try a different bulb
add foliage for shelter and shade

during the summertime, I take the chams outside for real sun. temps then do get over 90, but I ensure they get plenty of water and have adequate shade for them to get cover from the sun if they want to.
if temps get too high, I just bring them back inside.

 

[TOVIV]

what kind of light bulb are you using for basking?

In regards to your cage, you need to add a lot more foliage at the top and the middle for him to feel comfortable and safe. may also be why he sits so close to the bulb.

you can do several things to lower temps-
raise the bulb off the cage
lower the wattage
try a different bulb
add foliage for shelter and shade

during the summertime, I take the chams outside for real sun. temps then do get over 90, but I ensure they get plenty of water and have adequate shade for them to get cover from the sun if they want to.
if temps get too high, I just bring them back inside.

Basking is a 150w zoo med (natural daylight) type bulb. I will add more foliage if that helps as well, that is no issue and can knock it out this weekend.

Maybe I should try a 100w?

I moved the spot (branch down a bit), and temps are mid 80's, maybe that's better.

I googled pics of thermal burn on chams, and none of them look as serious or same coloring like this. Has me really worried... if its a burn you would think someone put a match to the guy or something, which is so strange!

Either way, gonna set up a vet appt soon as possible

 

[camimom]

Basking is a 150w zoo med (natural daylight) type bulb. I will add more foliage if that helps as well, that is no issue and can knock it out this weekend.

Maybe I should try a 100w?

I moved the spot (branch down a bit), and temps are mid 80's, maybe that's better.

I googled pics of thermal burn on chams, and none of them look as serious or same coloring like this. Has me really worried... if its a burn you would think someone put a match to the guy or something, which is so strange!

Either way, gonna set up a vet appt soon as possible

I would get a regular house bulb, or flood light if your temps get cold where you are, and use that for basking. I use flood lights (NOT HALOGEN) from Lowes for my basking lights.

moving the branch is good, but id suggest raising the light up instead, just because he can still climb upside down on the top screen section.

the reason your guys burn looks different is because its older. we usually see the burns soon after they happen. but the fact that the spikes are coming off and its oozing says its a deep thermal burn. and you did say its been like this for 2 weeks.

a vet will be able to give you a topical ointment (probably silvadine) to put on the burn, and possibly an antibiotic (probably baytril) to administer orally, in case theres any infection.

and just as fair warning, dony be surprised if the spikes never grow back, they rarely do on burns such as this.

 

[TOVIV]

I would get a regular house bulb, or flood light if your temps get cold where you are, and use that for basking. I use flood lights (NOT HALOGEN) from Lowes for my basking lights.

moving the branch is good, but id suggest raising the light up instead, just because he can still climb upside down on the top screen section.

the reason your guys burn looks different is because its older. we usually see the burns soon after they happen. but the fact that the spikes are coming off and its oozing says its a deep thermal burn. and you did say its been like this for 2 weeks.

a vet will be able to give you a topical ointment (probably silvadine) to put on the burn, and possibly an antibiotic (probably baytril) to administer orally, in case theres any infection.

and just as fair warning, dony be surprised if the spikes never grow back, they rarely do on burns such as this.

Well it wasn't as bad 2 weeks ago and I assumed it was part of shedding, but I'd say in the past week it's looked much worse.

I will also move light up as well, thanks for that tip

If the spikes don't grow back, I will be sad for the fella, but it won't change how much I care and want to make/keep him healthy. He'll be just as beautiful to me regardless.

I am just so upset that I didn't notice this happening, it's not like me. I am so obsessed with making sure the water drips perfectly, I mist multiple times, making sure he eats, etc etc... and yet missed this happen!

ahhhhh! Thank goodness for this forum!

 

[Lathis]

those definitely look like burns.

and 90+ is too warm for a veiled. especially when he's getting burned like that.

I keep my veiled no higher than 88, even during the summer, at least inside.

Your temps should never hit higher than 95 in the cage.

That means your lights are too close and is heating up the screen causing the burns.

you need to see a vet.

until then, you can use polysporin without the pain med part to cover it until you get to a vet.

oh and horns aren't high in fat, they are high in water, so they are great for hydration. just have no real nutrients.

Question for you Cam: the veiled caresheets here on the forums specifically state 90-05 deg F basking for a male veiled. I'm not arguing, I am just wondering if this needs to be revised? I wonder if this is misleading to new members or those new to chameleons.

 

[TOVIV]

Question for you Cam: the veiled caresheets here on the forums specifically state 90-05 deg F basking for a male veiled. I'm not arguing, I am just wondering if this needs to be revised? I wonder if this is misleading to new members or those new to chameleons.

If that is too high, that should definitely be changed because I was under the impression 90s even close to 100 was okay for a basking spot.

 

[Lathis]

ahhhhh! Thank goodness for this forum!

We're all here because we love chams. Some people feel ganged up on when they come on here for advise, so if you are feeling that way, please try not to. We want you to succeed and we want the best for your little guy!

He is a handsome one - a few lost spikes will only give him some character. Tell people it happened when he was saving your life from a house fire. He personally dragged you to safety. Or that he got it in a knife fight in a Singapore prison, but that's all you know - he's very secretive about it.

He could definitely use a little more cover. Get a pothos plant - they thrive in chameleon cages and grow pretty quickly.

 

[TOVIV]

We're all here because we love chams. Some people feel ganged up on when they come on here for advise, so if you are feeling that way, please try not to. We want you to succeed and we want the best for your little guy!

He is a handsome one - a few lost spikes will only give him some character. Tell people it happened when he was saving your life from a house fire. He personally dragged you to safety. Or that he got it in a knife fight in a Singapore prison, but that's all you know - he's very secretive about it.

He could definitely use a little more cover. Get a pothos plant - they thrive in chameleon cages and grow pretty quickly.

Thank you very much. Getting him a plant this weekend

 

[Lazy Boy]

I would get a regular house bulb, or flood light if your temps get cold where you are, and use that for basking. I use flood lights (NOT HALOGEN) from Lowes for my basking lights.

moving the branch is good, but id suggest raising the light up instead, just because he can still climb upside down on the top screen section.

the reason your guys burn looks different is because its older. we usually see the burns soon after they happen. but the fact that the spikes are coming off and its oozing says its a deep thermal burn. and you did say its been like this for 2 weeks.

a vet will be able to give you a topical ointment (probably silvadine) to put on the burn, and possibly an antibiotic (probably baytril) to administer orally, in case theres any infection.

and just as fair warning, dony be surprised if the spikes never grow back, they rarely do on burns such as this.

You seem to make a big deal about marking NOT HALOGGEN may I ask why? I use a flood halogen for basking and love the light/heat it puts off.

 

[fluxlizard]

You seem to make a big deal about marking NOT HALOGGEN may I ask why? I use a flood halogen for basking and love the light/heat it puts off.

Halogens provide more heat that penetrates further.

I've used halogen spots in some situations in the past. For many situations they can be easy to burn a lizard. Interestingly, now that "normal household incandescants" are illegal thanks to our all knowing lawmakers in the US who never considered how the "wasted" energy they produce is exactly what makes them perfect for providing heat for lizards, I now use halogen household bulbs, and after using them last winter and now this winter, I prefer that sort of bulb even over the old now illegal bulbs. The heat penetrates further from the bulb, and the light is brighter- you get more heat and light per watt.

I prefer the bulbs, not the spots or floods though, because I am looking for widespread heat that gradually changes in intensity. That is what you need for a thermal gradient, not a "hot spot".

Every situation is different. What works for one will not work for another.

The real problem here is that this owner failed to set up good thermal gradient, not the temps. For the first several years, 20 years ago, basking temps of 95-100 were the norm for veileds, and were on all the care sheets and books. I did not burn my veileds in spite of using these temps, neither did thousands of other breeders and pet owners. But I did not use roomy screen cages in a cool room in the winter time where the heat from the lights would dissipate rapidly, leaving only a "hot spot" and cold room. My temps are probably still like this, although I stopped checking with thermometers years ago. The key is to provide a thermal gradient so the poor lizards are working with their environment properly as their instinct directs them. My personal feeling is that understanding thermal gradients and how to set one up properly, is now an often overlooked and poorly understood, but very important aspect of lizard husbandry. Somehow we understood it when moving away from hot rocks for most lizards (not relevant to chameleons exactly) and towards heat lamps, and forgot it again later. But the same problem is causing the burns regardless of whether it is a "hot spot" or a "hot rock".

To the OP- you have to understand a few facts.

First if you run a hot spot in a cold cage, yes you had better use temps in the 80s for your chameleon.

Secondly, even then, it is better to understand that chameleons heat up like a brick- they build heat. Temperature of something, like a branch or a rock, beneath a heat light, will build over time and reach higher temps than the air. That is why a temp gun is best if you are measuring temp- you can get the surface temp and not the air temp. Or a probe fastened to the object.

Thirdly, chameleons do not use move and thermoregulate according to surface temp, the operate according to core temperature. Surface temps will heat rapidly, core temp deep inside the lizard, much more slowly. So your lizard will sit and burn it's surface while waiting for it's core to heat, if you have a dramatic difference between background and hot spot temp. They can even burn at lower temperatures than yours, if you have such a difference. They will sit all day waiting for core temp to heat enough, while surface continues to burn.

The way to prevent this is to provide a gradual temperature gradient, where temperature changes slowly through the enclosure from cooler to warmer, and where air temperature in most of the cage is warmer than the surrounding room. Then the chameleon will move here and there to regulate temperature slightly rather than dramatically sitting under the light so much and sitting in the cold so much.

Chameleons are analogue, not digital animals.

 

[Mike Fisher]

First if you run a hot spot in a cold cage, yes you had better use temps in the 80s for your chameleon.

Yep, If you use a hot spot in a cold cage, they get thermal shock. And their lower half is freezing while their upper half under the bulb cooks.

 

[TOVIV]

My room is usually the hottest room in the apartment.

so besides early in the morning, the cage isnt usually too harsh on wide ranges of temps.

He moves around a lot, usually up and down the cage or on the sides just wondering around and then every so often goes to his spot for a few.

Any who, temps have been lowered a tad on his spot and lamp lifted up from directly on that screen mesh.

Plant to come soon and vet appt to come soon. Will post back!

Thank you EVERYONE!!!


edit: by hottest, i dont mean its scorching, I just mean it isnt a bit chilly like the living room etc, where a hot spot would create a big jump from ambient temps

 

[MelissaB]

Toviv, I hope your guy feels better soon. I was just wondering if you're using a UVB bulb as well as a basking bulb. The only reason I'm asking, is that I couldn't see a second light in the pictures of his enclosure.