Chameleon won't shoot right

[Myrthe&Lucifer]

Hello everyone


General info

Chameleon info: Panther chameleon male Almost 5 years old, has no known health issues at the moment. Doesn't fall easily and eats well.

Info cage: Reptibreeze XL with live plants. Has real branches except 2. Heat lamp 75 watt and arcadia T5 6% uvb lamp that gets switched around every 6 months. He has a monsoon mister that goes off every 4 hours for a minute sometimes 2 minutes. He also has a cup of water. He mainly drinks out of that.(not by my choice he always drank out of puddles of water) Cage gets cleaned every week and gets deep cleaned every three months (depends on the state and season). In the picture the cage is quite empty due to some plants dying and losing leaves due to winter. But it will be filled again begin spring!

Husbandry: basking spot: 29-30 degree Celcius, humidity: 40% sometimes lower i cant seem to get it higher, i have tried alot of things (fogger, many live plants, covering the sides of the terrarium, etc). However he never has trouble with it.

Info feeding: 2 times a week sometimes more. He has a habit of gaining weight easily so i don't give him as much. He gets 2x a month zoomed reptivite vitamins with d3. And repti calcium every feed. I used to give him large insects but i switched to smaller in june because it wasn't recommended. He gets dubias, loctus and superworms. These get carrots and sometimes apple. He eats out of my hand and a cup mostly. Sometimes i put loctus in his terrarium for him to catch.

Some additional info:
1. He had surgery in August to close a wound correctly and had a bump removed from his toe. Sadly we couldnt do a biopsy from the bump because somebody lost it at the clinic. Everything went well no issues.
2. Around september/november he became dull of color due to wanting to shed however he started shedding only yesterday. I assume it had something to do with the surgery. His shed has been coming off smoothly.
3. used to give him vitamins without d3 and calcium with d3 however somebody recommended to switch out those two for vitamin with d3, he said it might fix the aiming problem (spoiler it didn't).
4. Around the time of his surgery he got his poop examined it had nothing it. Little info about the poop. Never had parasites and never been dehydrated. It does have a strong smell but he had tis that for like 3 years now no issues came out of it.
5. I live in Belgium we have quite harsh water here, so calcium stains are always present in his cup and mister. I was wondering if that can cause any issues?

The issue i'm having.

So basically for almost a year now he has a terrible aim. The vet didn't see anything strange and his eyes are good, it might be a sign of age with him. However i'm a bit concerned because i can't seem to fix it. Long range, short range it doesn't matter he keeps aiming wrong. Last thursday he was sick of it, and just wanted to grab them out of the bowl. His tongue shoots fine but he just misses alot. He still detects movement like a pro even from far away, so he isn't going blind as far as i can tell. His uvb lamp also has been changed in the meantime and no improvement, it will be switched again this month.

So now i'm wondering what i'm supposed to do. Because i'm not sure if i should help him and treat him like the old man he is becoming, or if i should change something and go further with the vet.

Please if you guys know this issue can you give me tips?

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi. I’m thinking the problem is just his age. Five is basically elderly for a chameleon and they will show signs of aging and slowing down. My 5 year old hasn’t shot her tongue out in over a year now and instead grabs her food with her mouth. Make accommodations for him, like using a feeding station to contain his feeders, if you don’t already. While he has his vision, his depth perception or some other aspect of it might be declined, same as we get as we age.

 

[Myrthe&Lucifer]

Hi. I’m thinking the problem is just his age. Five is basically elderly for a chameleon and they will show signs of aging and slowing down. My 5 year old hasn’t shot her tongue out in over a year now and instead grabs her food with her mouth. Make accommodations for him, like using a feeding station to contain his feeders, if you don’t already. While he has his vision, his depth perception or some other aspect of it might be declined, same as we get as we age.

Thank you for answering! Would you still recommend to still check with the vet for maybe MBD? Its weird that he is considerd eldery soon because i hear people having them for like 10 years.

 

[Beman]

Which supplements exactly are you using? Can you post pics. When did you buy the supplement? They do expire and need to be fresh. Too much D3 can compromise them throwing them into D3 toxicity. You can see issues of MBD with this because too much oral D3 can cause their bodies to pull the calcium from their bones to try to compensate for it. Typically when we are looking at targeting issues it is almost always linked to a vitamin A issue. Just because he is older does not mean this is the cause. My boy will be 7 in June and while he has many other old age issues his targeting is spot on.

 

[Myrthe&Lucifer]

Which supplements exactly are you using? Can you post pics. When did you buy the supplement? They do expire and need to be fresh. Too much D3 can compromise them throwing them into D3 toxicity. You can see issues of MBD with this because too much oral D3 can cause their bodies to pull the calcium from their bones to try to compensate for it. Typically when we are looking at targeting issues it is almost always linked to a vitamin A issue. Just because he is older does not mean this is the cause. My boy will be 7 in June and while he has many other old age issues his targeting is spot on.

Hi! You were actually the one who recommended me my supplementation routine earlier this year. I have reptivite with d3 and a normal zoomed calcium right now. The reptivite he gets 2x month. Everything is still good. It's been going on for almost a year now and no other issues have been developing he even underwent surgery without issues. The only thing that was strange was that he was in this awkward stage of shedding were he was dull in color for like 2-3 months. But didn't feel the need to actual shed. He ate well and wasn't bothered by it. I assumed it had something to do with the surgery because it was right after that, and the area around his wound never became dull until he actually started shedding.

 

[Beman]

Hi! You were actually the one who recommended me my supplementation routine earlier this year. I have reptivite with d3 and a normal zoomed calcium right now. The reptivite he gets 2x month. Everything is still good. It's been going on for almost a year now and no other issues have been developing he even underwent surgery without issues. The only thing that was strange was that he was in this awkward stage of shedding were he was dull in color for like 2-3 months. But didn't feel the need to actual shed. He ate well and wasn't bothered by it. I assumed it had something to do with the surgery because it was right after that, and the area around his wound never became dull until he actually started shedding.

Ok perfect, I just reviewed that thread. And by normal calcium you are using the calcium without D3. Now with the supplements are you dusting all insects that day?

Dull in color does not surprise me... Chams can go through a winter blues and their colors end up being off. Not shedding does not surprise me either as this is very infrequent as they get older. No growth to cause it.

How off is the targeting now?

 

[Myrthe&Lucifer]

Ok perfect, I just reviewed that thread. And by normal calcium you are using the calcium without D3. Now with the supplements are you dusting all insects that day?

Dull in color does not surprise me... Chams can go through a winter blues and their colors end up being off. Not shedding does not surprise me either as this is very infrequent as they get older. No growth to cause it.

How off is the targeting now?

It's calcium without d3 now! I general dust all insects every feed. Sometimes more sometimes less. When I put loctus in his cage to free roam I will usually just put them there without supplements. Because they would lose the supplements when moving around.

For the winter blue part. I don't think it was that I will show you a picture of how he was the last 2-3 months.


His aim is all over the place. Mostly it is shooting a little bit too short or little bit too much to the side. He is always off by a little bit. And he will target them with both eyes on them. Only a few times I was like now you are really far off.
He seems bothered by it too. mostly after shooting wrong he will be taking longer after too shoot again. Like he be staring at me like it's my fault. However he doesn't seem to be in pain and his tongue seems sticky enough because when he shoots wrong he sometimes get the tongue stuck to the bottom of the plastic cup and pulls it towards him.

 

[Beman]

It's calcium without d3 now! I general dust all insects every feed. Sometimes more sometimes less. When I put loctus in his cage to free roam I will usually just put them there without supplements. Because they would lose the supplements when moving around.

For the winter blue part. I don't think it was that I will show you a picture of how he was the last 2-3 months.


His aim is all over the place. Mostly it is shooting a little bit too short or little bit too much to the side. He is always off by a little bit. And he will target them with both eyes on them. Only a few times I was like now you are really far off.
He seems bothered by it too. mostly after shooting wrong he will be taking longer after too shoot again. Like he be staring at me like it's my fault. However he doesn't seem to be in pain and his tongue seems sticky enough because when he shoots wrong he sometimes get the tongue stuck to the bottom of the plastic cup and pulls it towards him.

So for him I would hand feed or cup feed so you are holding the insects in the cup. Supplement every single insect you feed.

Yeah that looks more like an issue of shedding. This can be linked to so many different things. From basic ambient levels not being spot on to totally normal as in the shed just is not ready.

 

[Myrthe&Lucifer]

So for him I would hand feed or cup feed so you are holding the insects in the cup. Supplement every single insect you feed.

Yeah that looks more like an issue of shedding. This can be linked to so many different things. From basic ambient levels not being spot on to totally normal as in the shed just is not ready.

Would you recommend doing some sort of test with the vet? So yes which one? And I will supplement them all!

He is shedding right now but again some patches seemed to be not ready. He did one side almost fully but he is again stalling with the other side.

 

[Beman]

Would you recommend doing some sort of test with the vet? So yes which one? And I will supplement them all!

He is shedding right now but again some patches seemed to be not ready. He did one side almost fully but he is again stalling with the other side.

Issue I found out is not all vets run blood work for the same stuff. He looks to be healthy otherwise. Granted yes a little heavy. If supplement changes did not work then your next common cause of a targeting issue would be a prior injury. Sometimes these heal up and sometimes they do not.

 

[Myrthe&Lucifer]

Alright i'll keep that in mind thank you for the help!! And he is indeed a chubby boy only gets food 2x a week and barely lost weight. He was always a big boi.

 

[Beman]

Alright i'll keep that in mind thank you for the help!! And he is indeed a chubby boy only gets food 2x a week and barely lost weight. He was always a big boi.

Yeah I understand the struggle with weight and my boy. Same situation. lol just do your best.

Ok one last question and this one is going to be dumb... The heat lamp your using? It is a standard basking bulb right not a combo UVB and heat bulb?

 

[Myrthe&Lucifer]

Yeah I understand the struggle with weight and my boy. Same situation. lol just do your best.

Ok one last question and this one is going to be dumb... The heat lamp your using? It is a standard basking bulb right not a combo UVB and heat bulb?

"Arcadia T5 6% 39w" so its a long uvb bulb. His back up lamp isn't arcadia tho its "exo terra Reptile UVB 100". However i only use this in case of emergency. I think it was only used once. And his heat lamp is "75Watt daylight basking spot" from exo terra. However when i first got him he had a reptech compact bulb heat and uvb combined because the store owner used them however i wasn't a fan. this lamp was used for less then a year. Maybe due to the exposure it might caused some eye damage later on? I heard the compact bulbs can cause eye problems.

 

[Beman]

"Arcadia T5 6% 39w" so its a long uvb bulb. His back up lamp isn't arcadia tho its "exo terra Reptile UVB 100". However i only use this in case of emergency. I think it was only used once. And his heat lamp is "75Watt daylight basking spot" from exo terra. However when i first got him he had a reptech compact bulb heat and uvb combined because the store owner used them however i wasn't a fan. this lamp was used for less then a year. Maybe due to the exposure it might caused some eye damage later on? I heard the compact bulbs can cause eye problems.

Ok perfect. This is what I wanted to be sure of. So the exo terra reptile UVB is a compact that I honestly would not use however it is not a Mercury Vapor bulb which is what I wanted to make sure of. Same with the heat bulb. It is totally fine to use and is not a mercury vapor bulb. The MV bulbs are very very dangerous. They are a 2 in 1 bulb heat and UVB. And not only can produce extreme temps but also very high UVI levels. So that was what I was checking for that the shedding issue was not actually something else that I have seen happen with use of MV bulb. So you are all set.

I have never heard that about compact bulbs... unless they are referring to the extreme UVI levels with some. But most commonly they do not have enough output so you end up with chams that have MBD.
Red bulbs are the bad ones that can damage eyes.

 

[Myrthe&Lucifer]

Ok perfect. This is what I wanted to be sure of. So the exo terra reptile UVB is a compact that I honestly would not use however it is not a Mercury Vapor bulb which is what I wanted to make sure of. Same with the heat bulb. It is totally fine to use and is not a mercury vapor bulb. The MV bulbs are very very dangerous. They are a 2 in 1 bulb heat and UVB. And not only can produce extreme temps but also very high UVI levels. So that was what I was checking for that the shedding issue was not actually something else that I have seen happen with use of MV bulb. So you are all set.

I have never heard that about compact bulbs... unless they are referring to the extreme UVI levels with some. But most commonly they do not have enough output so you end up with chams that have MBD.
Red bulbs are the bad ones that can damage eyes.

The exo terra uvb (as emergency) i use is a linear not a bulb ill put a link at the bottom. (however i'm buying me some new arcadia soon as backup since the bulb is indeed not great) Well it was a mecury vapor from reptech back then. I hated that lamp suprised my cham didnt get any burns ,since it was hanging in his terrarium at the time because the man built the terrarium like that. I didnt use d3 suppelements back then either (also because the guy said it was not needed). So it used to be a mess in the first year i had him.. It is a miracle he didn't have any issues for those 6-8 months. I'm happy to say i'm proud where i am with him rn.



https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url...ved=0CBcQjhxqFwoTCMDnj-vl4YoDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE

 

[Beman]

The exo terra uvb (as emergency) i use is a linear not a bulb ill put a link at the bottom. (however i'm buying me some new arcadia soon as backup since the bulb is indeed not great) Well it was a mecury vapor from reptech back then. I hated that lamp suprised my cham didnt get any burns ,since it was hanging in his terrarium at the time because the man built the terrarium like that. I didnt use d3 suppelements back then either (also because the guy said it was not needed). So it used to be a mess in the first year i had him.. It is a miracle he didn't have any issues for those 6-8 months. I'm happy to say i'm proud where i am with him rn.



https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https://bluefishaquarium.com/products/exo-terra-reptile-uvb100-tropical-linear-lamps&psig=AOvVaw02Ic734-6alETQAevTSiro&ust=1736276952497000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CBcQjhxqFwoTCMDnj-vl4YoDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE

They seem to be able to rebound really well once they have the right stuff in place.

 

[Myrthe&Lucifer]

They seem to be able to rebound really well once they have the right stuff in place.

Yeah i guess so. Thank you for all the info! I do think i will contact my vet after his shedding and see what he thinks should happen. Better safe then sorry.