Chameleon's eyes closed and walking

[jondavis30]

Hi, I have a yemen chameleon with set up as follows

-1 x Reptiglo Tube 5.0
- 1x Household bulb
-Ambient temp - 20 Degrees, Basking Temp 30 Degrees (celcius)
-Feeding Vit A and Vit D with Calcium at regular intervals
-Viv is wood with glass doors and 4 ventilation plugs in each corner at the top and bottom

As a new owner to chameleons, I have done really well with him, he's been feeding well, hes been active and explorative for the last month or so since I've had him.

He had a shed around a week ago which looked pretty funny because he was walking around and had all the shed dangling off of him.

Anyhow, I'm now really concerned. I came home today, and normally when I come home around 2-3pm he's basking or eating, he was doing neither, and it looked like he was sleeping.

I opened the door to feed another couple of crickets - I usually do this incase he's still hungry - and normally he opens his eyes and runs away as soon as he sees me.

This time, though, he just lay there with his eyes closed, and he's been walking around / climibing also with his eyes closed, which he wasn't doing last night.

I have tried spraying him with warm water in the event of dehydration to see if this helps, even though it's night I thought I'd give it a go as no vets are open at this time of night.

He just walks away / Climbs away still with his eyes closed, 2 hours later, he's still got his eyes closed, even when i open the door (if he's asleep he soon wakes up and finds somewhere to hide).

I was wondering if anyone would know what the problem is and if it's easily remedied? The temperatures outside have plummeted and I don't want to take him outside in the cold to go to the vets incase this kills him (temps are below zero during the day at present).

I'm really concerned because he was fine yesterday and all of a sudden its like he cant open his eyes, but I can see some movement under the eyelids if that makes sense (as though his eyes are moving but his eyelids are remaining closed).

I am really concerned and scared that I have done something wrong in the feeding process or something.

I have been gutloading with Carrots, Cucumber, Potatos and 'bug gel' - I have also been using a mixture of 3:1 Multivitamin:Calcium daily (as advised by my local pet store).

He's been eating well, and even today he's managed to eat all of what I gave him.

Can anybody help I feel sick just thinking about what I've done for him to get like this.

Thank you

 

[Elizadolots]

Hi!

I'm worried that he's not getting as much ventilation as he should. Can we see a picture of the enclosure? Also, what schedule are you using for D3 and Vitamin A supplementation?

 

[jondavis30]

I don't have a way of getting photos onto my computer unfortunately...... but when i go out i leave my room windows open which allow a draught to go through the ventilation things at the back of the enclosure, My viv is in between two windows.

and the D3 and Multivitamin is given every day (this is what the pet store told me to use) and he's been fine since the day I have had him until now.

He's even eat bits of carrot that i've given him in the cage so he's eating well. I am going to give him a clean out tomorrow anyway as this is due, too. It's the first one, but I don't want to stress him anymore than I have to so I'm going to try and do it while he is still in the viv.

I can't see any signs of infection and I can't see any signs that he's got a respiratory problem as there isn't forced inhale / exhalation.

Am I being a little delusional by thinking that it's nothing drastically serious that isn't remediable

 

[millerman6401]

you need to STOP the D3 and milti-vit everyday. Just use them both 2 times a month but get some regular calcium to give every other feeding

 

[carol5208]

you said "opened the door to feed another couple of crickets - I usually do this incase he's still hungry - and normally he opens his eyes and runs away as soon as he sees me" So he has been closing his eyes before this then? He should not be closing his eyes at all during the day. Whether he opens them when he feels you open the cage door or what not. The fact is they are closed and something is wrong here. Why are you supplementing with Vitamin A by itself and how are you administering this?.

 

[kinyonga]

His eyes should not be shut during the day. Sorry I can't tell you what is causing it...but your gutload could be improved and so could your supplementing.

Here's some information I hope will help you with supplementing, etc.....
Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.

A wide variety of insects that have been well fed and gutloaded should be fed to it.

Since many of the feeder insects we use in captivity have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects just before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings (I only skip the 4 times a month that I use the other two powders) with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. (I use Rep-cal phosphorus-free calcium).

If you also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it. (I use Rep-cal phos.-free calcium/D3).

Dusting twice a month as well with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while. (I use herptivite which has beta carotene.)

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.
Please note that various supplements have various amounts of D3 and vitamin A and so some can be given more often than others. The idea still is not to overdo the fat soluble vitamins like D3 and prEformed vitamin A.

Here are some good sites for you to read too...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200406080...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
If you can't access the sites above that have the word "archive" in you can do it through the WayBackMachine.

 

[jondavis30]

Thanking you for all of your suggestions, it looks like spraying him last night has done the trick! And a heavy spraying directly on him this morning too. I've come home today and he's up to his usual tricks of playing hide and seek.

He's now looking at me as if to say why am I so worried.

I gut load potatoes too ad dust crickets before feeding, thank you for your continued support and efforts

 

[Elizadolots]

You might want to up the quality of the gutload. Potatoes can be a good component but you want green leafy veggies and even some fruit in there if possible.

Here's the deal: we don't know what all is in food yet...we know what we can test for but we're always discovering things we didn't know was there as science increases. So, the safest thing to do is provide a wide variety of food for the gutload.

It's the same advice given to pregnant women: yes, you have that prenatal vitamin, but you don't know what else is in food that hasn't been discovered. So take the vitamin and eat a wide variety of food to cover the spectrum. Better safe than sorry.