Common chameleon // Male Veiled

[leedragon]

my firend, just look at america and their problem with invacive species, a veiled could esaly outnomber then chameleon chameleon, hybrids would be a damage as well for the europian chameleon.

if you do breed and lets say you have 30 hatchlings, would you care for all of them the possible 17 year they could live? do you have the money and the certainty you won't get tired of them? would you sell them? if you do sell them how can you garantize the new owner wont realize them when they get tired? it is a lot of responsibility resting on your shoulders, you could be the reason this species becomes more threaten than it is,
and besides european chameleons are illegal to possess they are protected.

o the right thing my friend

 

[GCash]

although I wouldn't cross breed I don't see a problem with it in a captive bred program. Snakes are done the same way. If your trying to get certain traits there is nothing wrong with cross breeding for pets. Boxers, Doberman etc are all mixed dogs to create a new breed. I would however never want to see wild species contaminated. If you go by the argument of never cross breeding do you live in a all white community?

Aside from the fact that chameleons are separate species and not "breeds", and occur in and have been shaped by nature for hundreds of thousands if not millions of years. Most of the examples you've given have been selectively bred within their own species. Dogs, cats, chickens, cows, etc., even people, have been selected for various traits based on human wants and desires and this is the process of DOMESTICATION. Herein lies the divide. Some of us like to appreciate the art nature has to offer in as natural of a state as possible without the corruption of human hands. Even when crossing the pardalis locales, if the best possible outcome were to be achieved and a beautiful specimen is produced, you still are looking through a filter of someONE taking credit and nature taking a back seat, which is a little sad in my opinion, but to each their own in a captive situation. I'm also a proponent of free-will as long as it doesn't impose on anyone/thing else. I personally have admiration for humble stewards of natural beauty.

I do think injecting race into the conversation is in poor taste, or at least not well thought out. In fact it is the appreciation of the natural biodiversity of animals and people alike that drive my view. It has been arbitrary human selection that produced some of the worst atrocities our world has ever seen and if that weren't enough, to isolate a desired trait, in most cases, the offspring is inbred back to its parent stock and siblings so much that other unwanted mutations are expressed as well. Some of which seem to doom the animals to a life of misery. Just to me, maybe some things shouldn't be ALL about what "we" want.

That being said, I do appreciate good conversation.

 

[norcalsteel]

my race comment wasn't meant to be racist it was meant to show that beautiful things can come of mixed matching. Again in the wild I wouldn't want to see pure lines contaminated. However I am looking at it from the pet owner side. If a mutt isn't pure bred it can still be loved by its owner. I feel a lot of breeders confuse monetary value with quality value. I can almost guarantee if someone could put Jackson chameleon horns on a panther there would be a market for them. This isn't DNA splicing, if god doesn't approve then they wouldn't give fertile eggs...

 

[leedragon]

my race comment wasn't meant to be racist it was meant to show that beautiful things can come of mixed matching. Again in the wild I wouldn't want to see pure lines contaminated. However I am looking at it from the pet owner side. If a mutt isn't pure bred it can still be loved by its owner. I feel a lot of breeders confuse monetary value with quality value. I can almost guarantee if someone could put Jackson chameleon horns on a panther there would be a market for them. This isn't DNA splicing, if god doesn't approve then they wouldn't give fertile eggs...

god hasn´t to do with this, there are already chameleons in all forms size and colors, instead for making a blue chamelon red just pick the red that already exist

 

[norcalsteel]

god hasn´t to do with this, there are already chameleons in all forms size and colors, instead for making a blue chamelon red just pick the red that already exist

missing the point, If two different species breed and have viable eggs its still nature.

 

[leedragon]

missing the point, If two different species breed and have viable eggs its still nature.

and you missed the point of my response, it isn't, you are the one owning a species from a different part of the world and putting it with an other one who is not it+s species

 

[Eric Adrignola]

nature would be the crossing of adjacent species: calyptratus and arabicus. This can and does happen. This even resulted in them initially naming it a subspecies: C.calyptratus calcarifer or something like that...

Taking an animal and crossing it with an animal from thousands of miles away, that is not nature. It is not genetic engineering, but it's not a natural cross, either.

Besides, most of these crosses end up uglier than a pure veiled anyway.

 

[norcalsteel]

and that's why I brought race into it earlier. That's like saying Asians and Europeans shouldn't mix.

 

[leedragon]

and that's why I brought race into it earlier. That's like saying Asians and Europeans shouldn't mix.

.... no, that is not about etnicity, those are different species, we are all homo sapiens sapiens.

If you are going to mix humans with any species that live today would be with a chimp

 

[norcalsteel]

.... no, that is not about etnicity, those are different species, we are all homo sapiens sapiens.

If you are going to mix humans with any species that live today would be with a chimp

but that wouldn't take, naturally. How are all the wonderful snake morphs made?

 

[GCash]

...bred for its skills in magic.

 

[GCash]

but that wouldn't take, naturally. How are all the wonderful snake morphs made?

Inbreeding

 

[leedragon]

but that wouldn't take, naturally. How are all the wonderful snake morphs made?

by f** up perfectly fine snake species

 

[norcalsteel]

by f** up perfectly fine snake species

how does pet breeding f*** up a snake species. The wild ones remain unchanged.
seriously not trolling here, just trying to understand the hard line approach to captive bred lines.http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/animals/photos/11-amazing-hybrid-animals/mixing-things-up

Pangea....

 

[GCash]

how does pet breeding f*** up a snake species. The wild ones remain unchanged.
seriously not trolling here, just trying to understand the hard line approach to captive bred lines.http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/animals/photos/11-amazing-hybrid-animals/mixing-things-up

Pangea....

From your link...

"The unlikely fertilization was a success, but the result wasn't quite what breeders had hoped."

"It's a controversial fish because it has several anatomical deformities, including such a narrow opening for a mouth that it's difficult for them to feed. They are bred because some fish pet owners enjoy their bright orange colors."

And there could be more.

 

[norcalsteel]

that link was on 11 different animals....and some were natural like the polar/grizzley

 

[GCash]

that link was on 11 different animals....and some were natural like the polar/grizzley

I don't believe anyone would have a problem with species whose natural range overlap engaging in natural genetic experimentation without human intervention. That's nature's prerogative and part of the evolution of biodiversity. The problem occurs when humans try to create "something no one's ever seen" and what you don't see is for every "magnificent specimen" produced, the scores of attempts, siblings and clutch mates that don't "make the cut" which are produced and enter the gene pool, whether captive or not.

 

[Carlton]

but that wouldn't take, naturally. How are all the wonderful snake morphs made?

Again, almost all snake morphs are created from selective breeding WITHIN a single species...Python regius for example. With all the furor over producing BP morphs there are a few that doom the poor snakes with miserable lives...neurological problems, hypersensitivity to light, organ deformities, etc.