Concerned about Jackson after laying slugs

[mrlax]

We're very concerned about our female Jackson, approximately 2 years old. She layed approximately 12 infertile eggs, small, yellow, about the size of jelly beans. She spent about 3-4 hours doing this, it was clearly a lot of effort, and after she went to her branches and slept, well after her normal 'bedtime'. The past couple of days, she has been very sluggish, and quite dark in coloration. She was eating quite well before this ordeal, but has eaten just several flies since the egg laying, and has shown no interest in any of her regular favorites- crickets, butterflies, moths etc.

I've learned that what she has been through is somewhat common, but is the post-egg laying reaction common? Is there an expected downtime? Is this generally something the chameleons recover from in a few days?

We are very concerned, contacted my vet, and have set an appointment with her too. She has suggested 10 minute bathing sessions in warm water to help hydrate her, and will help us assist-feed a protein solution if we have not witnessed feeding by the time of the appointment. Thanks for any help or insights on this situation.

 

[jojothefirst]

Eggs? jacksons have live births? you sure its a jackson?

 

[Trillian]

Are you certain she is a Jackson? They give birth to live young, rather than lay eggs. How long have you had her? Where did she lay the slugs you saw? Any pictures would help.

 

[mrlax]

Yes she is definitely a Jacksons, and the breeder who we got her from confirmed that this is not uncommon, and that jacksons do this in a similar manner to chickens ridding themselves of unfertilized eggs. This first picture is a couple of months old, the second I just took, she is sleeping- and this is her normal 'bedtime' (I flipped the lights on quickly for the photo)....

 

[mrlax]

Here is a picture of her laying one of these duds, and a pic of what they look like. She wandered around her cage for 4-5 hours doing this in the moist dirt, which she seldom visits. She went back to her branches later, but has been extremely sluggish and weak every since.

 

[ZPavDesign]

Yea I've read they do that too. It's not uncommon. Usually tend to lay them in the soil or on leaves. Tend to do it maybe once a year.

 

[Solid Snake]

It had the opposite effect on my girl, she started behaving more "normal" afterwards.

Ive only had it happen once, and my animal is/was having other health issues at the time, so while I cant be certain, Id say there is an issue somewhere judging from your statements on her behavior.

Please fill out the "Help" form, and post pics of her entire setup.

Information on feeding/gutloading/supplementing going back as far as possible would be especially helpful.

 

[thephotoprincess]

My girl laid a few slugs back in March but it didn't take a toll on her - she was eating and drinking right after. Your girl looks rather thin and maybe a little dehydrated in the photo of her sleeping. How has she been drinking?

 

[mrlax]

Ruby lives in this indoor enclosure (see attached), 36"x18"x18". We've had her for almost one year. She eats generally well, a diet of mostly crickets dusted with Sticky Tongue Farms Minerall product. We feed the crickets mostly fresh veggies (carrots, arugula, squash, some dry oatmeal) and we dust their food with Vitall product. Additionally, she eats butterflies, flies, and moths irregularly. She is dehydrated for sure, she took to her bath well earlier today. Her enclosure stays in the mid 80s in her basking area, and the humidity around 50-70%. She was drinking fairly well from drippage and spray prior to the egg laying issue on July 3. Her lighting is a zoomed 10.0 uvb, and her heat comes from a ceramic.

 

[bluewuta]

My jacksons do this every once in a while usually young females that have never bred before, I do what I always do with females after they give birth. I place them in a little hydration chamber I made and always make sure to have calcium on there food. The slugs are just unfertilized eggs and they never developed inside so she gives birth to the slugs. Much like snakes do once in a while.

 

[mrlax]

" I place them in a little hydration chamber I made and always make sure to have calcium on there food. "

Can you tell me more about your hydration chamber? Thanks!

 

[Elizadolots]

Typically this board doesn't recommend substrate as there is danger of impaction if the chameleon eats it....I'm just wondering as you say she was down there for quite some time. It's a possibility you might want to mention to the vet when you bring her in. The other concern would be that she did not get all of the slugs out.

Rather than bathe her, I would suggest showering her. If you can put the cage or just the tree (or another plant) in the shower, point the water at the wall so it bounces onto the plant. Make the water warm to hot because it cools in transit.

 

[Solid Snake]

Ruby lives in this indoor enclosure (see attached), 36"x18"x18". We've had her for almost one year. She eats generally well, a diet of mostly crickets dusted with Sticky Tongue Farms Minerall product. We feed the crickets mostly fresh veggies (carrots, arugula, squash, some dry oatmeal) and we dust their food with Vitall product. Additionally, she eats butterflies, flies, and moths irregularly. She is dehydrated for sure, she took to her bath well earlier today. Her enclosure stays in the mid 80s in her basking area, and the humidity around 50-70%. She was drinking fairly well from drippage and spray prior to the egg laying issue on July 3. Her lighting is a zoomed 10.0 uvb, and her heat comes from a ceramic.

You are dusting all the feeder crickets with the Minerall?
Is it the indoor or outdoor type?

I dont know anything about Vitall.

She needs a basking bulb, not a CHE.

A regular white household bulb, will replicate the sun much more efficiently, and allow her to understand where the heat is coming from, and where to bask.

40-50-watts should do it.

A 10.0 UVB is too strong for her species, unless its positioned quite high up. If its past 6 months old, it could be providing an ideal amount of UVB though, as they degrade over time. Only a UVB meter can tell you if it is an appropriate amount of UVB though.

Id suggest getting her a new 5.0 bulb.

A long rain shower would do better to hydrate her than a bath.

Are these wild flies that you are feeding?

Do you know exactly what type of butterfly your feeding?

Not all are safe, that goes for moths as well.

 

[bluewuta]

I take a shoe box sized rubber maid container and drill a few holes in the lid. Then put a dripping wet washcloth and put it on the bottom of the box. Then put a reptile heat pad underneath it. I put one of those thermometers withthe sticky back in there to make sure not to cook the chameleon. The type of heat pads I get from exoterra get about 102 degrees and create humidity pretty fast so more vent holes might be needed then expected. Just keep an eye out and make sure not to let your chameleon over heat. This works awesome for all my chameleon types just dont over heat them or let them dry out in there. I even do this with new chameleons so I dont have to stress so much when they dont want to drink right away.

 

[mrlax]

Thanks for your advice and comments.
The mineral is the indoor variety, and we lightly dust most crickets. She eats some immediately when presented, but sometimes ignores them. The vitall is a feeder supplement. The butterflies we get around her are cabbage white (her favorite) and painted ladies. The months are a common grey moth- I have been feeding these to her since the beginning and she loves them. The occasional flies are usually wild although we acquire some blue bottles (cultured) occasionally. We has a bean beetle culture as well, and she ate them with vigor initially but lost interest soon thereafter. She has rarely eaten silkworms & mealworms, but never accepted waxworms. She hasn't eaten any of those feeders for many months. Regarding bulbs- we initially used and infra-red, then moved to the ceramic. She doesn't get evening heat as her environment doesn't get lower than 60 ever. The bulb and heat are about 6" over her basking branches. We're taking her for a vet visit and likely an assisted feeding early in the morning tomorrow. Hope this helps strengthen her :-(

 

[jdog1027]

Listen to Solid Snake; I'd lose the 10.0 UVB and go with the 5.0. Be very sparing on the Sticky Tongue Farms calcium. I only sprinkle a very small amount of the outdoor formula with no D-3 about once every 2 weeks or so, and you should only give the indoor D-3 type once every 6 weeks and you should barley use much more than a half thimle full per 10-15 feeders. One other thing; I would eliminate the dry oatmeal from the gutload for your feeders. Oatmeal has a high amount of phosphorus and this will cause problems with the calcium/phosphorus ratio of the feeders. This will inhibit calcium absorption. Pretty female though, lots of red,... my favorite.

 

[dominicthechameleon]

Ruby lives in this indoor enclosure (see attached), 36"x18"x18". We've had her for almost one year. She eats generally well, a diet of mostly crickets dusted with Sticky Tongue Farms Minerall product. We feed the crickets mostly fresh veggies (carrots, arugula, squash, some dry oatmeal) and we dust their food with Vitall product. Additionally, she eats butterflies, flies, and moths irregularly. She is dehydrated for sure, she took to her bath well earlier today. Her enclosure stays in the mid 80s in her basking area, and the humidity around 50-70%. She was drinking fairly well from drippage and spray prior to the egg laying issue on July 3. Her lighting is a zoomed 10.0 uvb, and her heat comes from a ceramic.

This website will really help you. http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/2007/12/keeping-female-veiled.html

 

[mrlax]

Thank-you all for your replies. Unfortunately, Ruby degraded very rapidly today and we put her to sleep a short while ago. This morning, she was not looking good, and expelled MORE infertile eggs. This was 4 days after the dozen plus infer tiles that she had expelled. After this, she had nearly no strength, and could barely hold on to limbs, fell several times, and was just in bad shape. She was gaping, I provided her some water through a plastic syringe, and while she accepted it, it didn't have any positive effect. She was holding her tongue out of her mouth and couldn't even support herself. We took her to the vet ER and they said she was hanging by a thread and best to put her down. It was extremely sad, as she was a completely different animal at the beginning of last week, active, eating heartily, and plump. Then this egg-laying incident and such a rapid degradation of her condition that now she is gone, as of about 2 hours ago. This seemed too short- having this pet for about 1 year, she was only about two years at her passing. We have learned from this, and surely we will learn more. My wife and I will regroup and hopefully be chameleon keepers again in the future.

 

[Elizadolots]

I'm so sorry.

 

[Trillian]

I'm so sorry you lost her like this.