Dark spot on the side of my Chameleon

[kamil]

Hi, I know there are a couple of similar threads to this but I wanted to ask for any ideas/suggestions regarding my Chameleon!



Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled, Male, 9 months old, had him since 3 months old.
Handling - Most days in a week
Feeding - Large brown crickets, gut loaded with veg scraps eg broccoli, lettuce. He has about 4-6 fiver or 6 days a week. Occasionally give him morio worms. Always dust them with calcium+ D3 wife a week or so.
Supplements - 'T-Rex' Calcium no phosphorus with D3 '2.0' for insect eating Lizards, Turtles and Snakes.
Watering - Plastic tub suspended above the cage, drips every couple of seconds into a big plastic leaf and then falls into a collection tub at the bottom of the cage. I fill it up about 3 times a week and it lasts a whole day dripping. I must every day. I have occasionally seen him licking a the big leaf.
Fecal Description - Never tested for any parasites. His colours are normal as far as I know, the same as they have always been. Droppings again are always the same. Mostly brown, same consistencies as a guinea pig, mouse etc! Small chunk of white with it too.
History - nope!

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Full screen 'repti breeze' 40x40x76cm cage.
Lighting - Exo terra UV bulb in exo terra lamp shade on top of the cage. Incandescent bulb from the side towards the top to create a basking zone, with a branch nearby. Both on a timer for 12 hours a day.
Temperature - Basking branch is 32 degrees, under the UV bulb is 27 and in the other areas of the cage it is about 24. Down the bottom is lower 20's. Also have a heat mat behind the cage up the top that comes on at night to keep the top part warmer, at about 24 degrees.
Humidity - normally around 35% when I have just misted it goes up to about 70 temporarily.
Plants - A very small Palm looking plant at the bottom. House pant style.
Placement - cage is on a unit in my bedroom, which has the door shut all day with no one in there. It is in the middle of the room but in line with a single window. I have a tall plant next to the cage which blocks direct sunlight but the some light does get through to the cage.
Location - Kent, UK.

Current Problem - he has a dark grey/blue ish patch on his side, where his knee reaches when he bends it up. It has been there for about 3-4 weeks, when he sheds his skin it seems to get stuck around the area and that patch never seems to shed the skin. I have tried keeping it clean with some luke warm water trickling g over it, and the same with some weak salt water. Within the last week he has started to eat less than normal. He had 2 worms yesterday, nothing today and the only other time he has eaten was a couple of worms and crickets before the weekend. It doesn't seem sore, when I touch it he doesn't hiss (he is more than happy to hiss when he wants to, getting him out of the cage is tricky!) it hasnt got any worse or better since it first developed. Not set looking in any way. No blood etc.


Pictures are helpful

 

[kamil]

Anothe pic:

 

[Sanababit]

From what i have read, black spots on a chameleon could be fungus, sepsis from a wound, or even a burn. Best to consult a vet. !

Sana

 

[kamil]

Ok, thanks

 

[RyU]

I agree, it looks fungal. Better get a vet to check that out.

 

[Lathis]

It looks a little bit like a burn, although it's not the typical place to see veileds get burns - a lot of times, you will see burns on the casque and back. Have you ever seen him hang underside down under his basking lamp? Do you have a way to measure the temperature directly under the lamp?

 

[kamil]

Yeah, he always hangs upside down underneath the lamp! Thing is, its only warm to the touch. Even directly beneath it the bulb, it does look like a burn though I agree with you on that.

Think I might just get him a vets appointment for this week at some point. £££

 

[Carlton]

Yeah, he always hangs upside down underneath the lamp! Thing is, its only warm to the touch.

Just a reminder about temperatures...

If you, a mammal with a body temp of 98.6F feel the temp as "warm" that translates into a temp that could actually be over 100 F.

To a cham, who's skin and body temp would normally be much lower, it could mean something hot enough to burn.

Don't guess by using your hand. Use an accurate thermometer instead.

Chams bask to raise their internal body temp. Problem is, that takes a while and their skin can overheat to the point of burning sooner than the cham can detect. The way we provide heat can predispose them to skin burns because we offer pretty focused intense beams of heat instead of a broad source like the sun.

Hard to say exactly what that spot is, but a vet visit sounds like a good idea IMHO.

 

[kamil]

Ok, yeah I see what you mean about the temps etc. Thanks for the replies!

 

[kamil]

Just an update..

Took him to the vets, he said the dark spot on his side looks like an old bruise/burn that will take 5-6 sheds before it goes, and is not related to him not eating. The vet also said that the probably cause for his 'general very poor health and the extremely rough shed that he is currently going through' was due to the humidity levels. Apparently it needs to be up nearer 70-80% as a constant rather than 35-40% as it usually is. He also told me the main reason for this would be the screen cage as 'veiled chameleons are from tropical mountainous regions where it is often wet and humid' and I should board up the side of the enclosure temporarily and get hold of a glass vivarium as soon as possible to keep the humidity up. (To add, he wasn't going through a rough shed, and still isn't, it was a few beads of polystyrene that had come away from the box that I had transported him in! I did try to correct him, and even blew them off to show the vet but he was having none of it!?)

The solution was to gut load his insects with nutri bal instead of dusting with the calcium + d3 powder (as excessive d3 from the uv bulb and the powder can lead to bone and joint issues, as well as the general health problems the chameleon was suffering from) and to have a 7 day course of anti biotics.

I came away with the feeling that he didn't know what he was talking about to be honest! Unless I have been majorly misinformed, I thought screen cages were a good choice for veileds? Oh and I also have to bath him 3 times a day for a couple of weeks, 15 minutes at a time,to keep him hydrated.

Opinions on this anyone?!

 

[Carlton]

Just an update..

The vet also said that the probably cause for his 'general very poor health and the extremely rough shed that he is currently going through' was due to the humidity levels. Apparently it needs to be up nearer 70-80% as a constant rather than 35-40% as it usually is. He also told me the main reason for this would be the screen cage as 'veiled chameleons are from tropical mountainous regions

Veileds are NOT from tropical regions. They are from Yemen which isn't really tropical. I'd describe their habitat as shrubby river valleys near the coast that get regular fog and dew at night into mornings, but dries out as the day warms up. The humidity level should not be constantly as high as 80% for this species. If you provide cycles of higher and lower humidity with lots of opportunities to drink, that should be fine. Depending on the climate in your area and your house, you'll want to provide a humidity level that doesn't drop below 30% at the driest. When you mist the cage, the humidity will rise a lot, but the cage should then dry out before you mist again. Provide bushy live plants that hold water droplets so he can drink as much as he needs to. If you have to use an AC in summer or a furnace in winter you'll find that the cage will be drier then. You may have to put some sheet plastic over a couple of cage sides to help hold in more moisture at those times. Get a good quality humidity gauge to help monitor it.


where it is often wet and humid' and I should board up the side of the enclosure temporarily and get hold of a glass vivarium as soon as possible to keep the humidity up. (To add, he wasn't going through a rough shed, and still isn't, it was a few beads of polystyrene that had come away from the box that I had transported him in! I did try to correct him, and even blew them off to show the vet but he was having none of it!?)

The solution was to gut load his insects with nutri bal instead of dusting with the calcium + d3 powder (as excessive d3 from the uv bulb and the powder can lead to bone and joint issues, as well as the general health problems the chameleon was suffering from) and to have a 7 day course of anti biotics.

A veiled will want daily light dusting with plain calcium (no D3), dusting with a calcium that does contain D3 every 2 weeks, and dusting with a herp multivitamin every two weeks. Yes, excess D3 can cause bone issues. Most important is good feeder gutloading. There are good gutloads available from forum sponsors. Most of the insect foods available at typical pet supplies are poor.


I came away with the feeling that he didn't know what he was talking about to be honest! Unless I have been majorly misinformed, I thought screen cages were a good choice for veileds? Oh and I also have to bath him 3 times a day for a couple of weeks, 15 minutes at a time,to keep him hydrated.

Opinions on this anyone?!

The vet was off somewhat, yes. Bathing him will be very stressful. You could put him on a potted plant in the shower, turn the shower head so a lukewarm spray hits the wall and bounces onto the plant (less force that way) and let him drink and clean his eyes for 20 minutes or so. He may not like this and may try dropping off the plant to avoid the water. Trial and error. Misting him with warm water in a cage with dense live foliage will help a lot.

 

[ZiggyStardust]

Was it a reptile vet that you took him to, or a small animal vet? Many vets do not have the necessary experience to give you accurate advice in relation to reptile health issues, as it is a specialism in veterinary science. Unfortunately good Herp vets can be quite scarce - I am lucky enough to live 10 miles away from one on Blackpool who is an absolute expert, but I know others aren't as
fortunate.

As regards the humidity levels - I have an XL Reptibreeze and also live in the UK. Whilst it can be harder to maintain higher humidity levels in the UK, it is achievable - both the sides and the back of my cage are lined with bubble wrap, the effect of which is twofold; it stops my walls getting soaking wet and also keeps the humidity levels never dropping below about 60% minimum.

 

[Scoobthenoob]

I would be inclined

Based on some well most of what this vet told you I might inclined to source a specialist vet and get a second opinion on the mark, it to me does look like a result of a burn, however, I am not convinced that there is no underlying fungal or bacterial infection.

As for bathing and humidity, you really do need a hygrometer, digital is preferable for the sake of accuracy, I also own a generic large screen viv, I mist 2 times a day and during hours of light I provide a dropper, I have however just purchased a auto rain system.

However using mister and dropper should maintain it but make sure your measuring it, day time humidity can drop with out to much concern this happens in nature, however in nature humidity tends to clone at dawn and around dusk and periodically during precipitation events.

By the way he is a fine specimen, even with his "beauty" spot.

PS. I think you should see a DR for yourself, you appear to have a pair of feet growing from your finger, I am sure you're aware that this is an abnormality, and I am sure corrective surgery should be AM option.