Dead Chameleons help please

[ageber]

I seem to have developed a problem with my panther chameleons and not sure what to do. It seems that over the last couple of months i seem to be losing my chameleons. There have been no outward signs of disease. Each cham has its own cage and i have a misting system set up. each cage has one of the major 100 watt bulbs, typically a mega ray or power sun.

there have been no changes to the habitat for 7 months. all have been eating till within a day they died. all are active. None have shared the same cage space or have come in contact with the other. When i did have a sick cham we took him to the vet. mouth rot and an infection and he lived for 2 months past what the vet thought he would. I am at a loss on what i can do. last cham i took to the vet said she was fine. this morning when i went to feed them, I saw one of my chams on the floor of his cage and all color was gone. he was fine yesterday. any ideas?

room temp is about 78 degrees. basking temps about 90. cages are 2ft x 2ft x 4ft plenty of vines and things to climb on. live plants. same plant since set up. eating superworms and crickets. automatic misting system comes on all during the day at various times

 

[Julirs]

Are your feeders coming into contact with something poisonous? Is there anything being sprayed in your house? Fumes? Have you had a fecal done? Are you positive about your temps?

 

[Jerm]

One thing that you have to look at is the condition of your feeders. If your crickets have dirty water or cage, they can carry a bacteria that will be harmfull to chameleons. Are the feeders clean and well fed? You should try to fill out this list to make it easier for people to give their suggestions: https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/

 

[prettykttkat]

What's your supplement regimen? I agree with Jerm, filling out the how to ask for help would help us help you.

 

[heloderm]

I've seen animals in bad shape make a Major turn around with vitamin A and water, it can work wonders! Not sure what your problem is though.

 

[sandrachameleon]

Probably worth taking the recently deceased chameleon to the vet to have a necropsy done, to determine why it died and possibly help you stop it from happening to others.

 

[ageber]

i will repost all this info when i am home after work. my feeders however are gutloaded every night, i keep several thousand crickets and worms in plastic ventilated bins with water and feeding cups. new crickets every 2 weeks.
cages are screened and automatic misting system. nothing changed in our house. all cages are in our finished basement as we have about 30 other reptiles there as well. all in own cages. night time temps down around 72-78. just vary's

 

[chams1]

i will repost all this info when i am home after work. my feeders however are gutloaded every night, i keep several thousand crickets and worms in plastic ventilated bins with water and feeding cups. new crickets every 2 weeks.
cages are screened and automatic misting system. nothing changed in our house. all cages are in our finished basement as we have about 30 other reptiles there as well. all in own cages. night time temps down around 72-78. just vary's

That is how we keep our crix - however, where do you get your crix from? And, have you changed sources recently? This may be a factor.

Also, if you are keeping that many different types of reptiles all in one area of the house, it is possible that you have something going around that was brought in or acquired from one of those other reptiles.

You also said you have had the "same plant" for a while. What type of plant? (but that will, I'm sure, be included in your "how to ask for help" form.)

I also agree that you should get a necropsy done. These things can tell you a lot. I would maybe do a fecal on each of your remaining chams, too.

 

[luevelvet]

I just went through something similar and the only thing you can have done is to take the most recently deceased individual to your vet and order a necropsy. They will be able to look at every organ and usually determine what is causing the issue.

How many have you lost and in what period of time? Look for patterns and review any notes you may have. You may be able to pinpoint when each became sick and see what else in your routine is happening around the same time, or just prior, and go from there.

Getting fecals done is always advisable but with the size of your collection you may want to consider purchasing your own microscope and examine the samples on your own. This way you can immediately identify any potential issues discernible from fecal samples without having to wait for the vet etc etc. At the very least, it put my mind at ease this week when the only possible cases were, parasites/pathogens or toxins.

If the fecals come out clean then you move onto blood samples. If they are full grown adults, getting enough blood to run the gamut of tests and blood smears to identify any swimming nasties.

I can appreciate your situation, being in the middle of something similar myself, but it would behoove you to find a qualified reptile vet in your area and begin the discussion just how you did here. Don't forget to mention of the size of your collection and how concerned you are for the remaining animals. This can dramatically reduce the amount of time everything takes in an attempt to solve the issue before affecting your existing collection.

I truly wish you the best of luck and please keep us posted. I for one would be highly interested in what you find out.

Luis

 

[ageber]

stats, help please

Cage Type - screened cages, 2 x 2 x 4 high
Lighting - i use both powersuns and mega ray bulbs, the low UV for chams. One on each cage as well as i have a 4ft UVB linear tube that is above every 2 cages. lights are automatic 12 hours a day on
Temperature - top temp is about 90 and bottom temp is about 75-78 on average. Temp is taken with temp gun. average daytime temp in basement is 80 degrees and nightime drops to 75 on average
Humidity - humidity averages 50% but i have an automatic misting system that comes on every 2 hours and keeps the plants wet.
Plants - I have fake plants and vines and in the center of each cage i have a live plant. i think they are corn or cane plants bought at lowes. soil is 100% organic and plant was on safe list. have not changed the plant in almost a year
Placement - the cages all sit on an 18 inch high table bringing the top of the cage to 66 inches. the ceiling height is 84 inches. the cages are in my basement which was finished for reptiles. we have approximately 45 reptiles there. chameleons are by themselves in separate cages with partitions between them
Location - located in central New Jersey
Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - All my chams are assorted Panther chameleons. average age is about a year to year and half. I have had them all for about a year
Handling - we have some that are handled every so often and are very friendly and some that rarely get handled.
Feeding - Chams get crickets and superworms. typically every other day. not a set schedule and the amount varies based on what i see them eat. gut loaded with vegetables, everyday,
Supplements - all are dusted with calcium from zoo med
Watering - automatic misting system on every 2 hours from 7 am till 8pm and long enough to wet down all plants and chams go to leaves when system goes on to drink
Fecal Description - not tested for parasites. usually fecal looks like small brown log with white substance attached
History - all chams have lived in their cages and have been under same diet for some time. I started buying my crickets and worms from reptilefood.com in the last 3 months which is about the only change i can think of
Current Problem - chams seem to be dying off with no warning. Not all at same time but probably within a few weeks or a month after one, the next one is dead. all were eating the day before the last one died, he seemed fine, in the morning he was laying on floor, all color out of him and tongue sticking out.

 

[Syn]

Are you only dusting with calcium and nothing else? No D3?

I have heard of something very similar happening in crested geckos, turned out a small "colony" of spiders was to blame.
I wish you the best in finding out what is going on and stopping it.

 

[jannb]

I don't know if this would cause your panthers to die but 90 is a tad high for panthers. Mid 80's is recommended.

Don't mist late in the day so the cage will be dried out by bed time.

Tell us more about your supplements? You should be using Calcium without d3 the most....about every other feeding. Calcium with d3 twice a month and a multi vit. once a month.