Do his eyes look sunken in?

[Kaylee1]

Hi, just noticed this morning that my chameleons eyes may seem a little sunken in but I wanted to get your guys opinions?


Info:

• Your Chameleon - Male Panther chameleon, 1 years old. Just got him on June 5th.

• Feeding - Mainly Dubia roaches with the occasional hornworm/silkworm/wax worm. He gets about 4-5 schmedium roaches every other day. Lately has only been getting roaches. He’s getting blended gutload of greens, orange, apple, sweet potato, bell pepper, yellow squash, carrot, bee pollen, mazuri better bug gutloading diet, repashy superload - mashed up into frozen pellets that I thaw out

• Supplements - He gets supplemented with calcium without D3 at every feeding everyday, calcium with D3 twice monthly (every other Wednesday) and herptivite twice monthly (every other Wednesday)

• Watering - mistking automatic misting system. Misting schedule

And I have a humidifier off and on ran during the day. It is turned off during night time. It’s pretty dry in Colorado where I live.


Schedule for watering
8:00 am- 3 min

11:00 am - 1 min 30 sec

3:00 pm- 2 min



He is in a screen cage with clear shower curtain around the three sides to help obtain humidity.



Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Reptibreeze screen 24x24x48 inches

• Lighting -

Arcadia 100 watt heat lamp, reptisun 22inch 5.0 T5 HO and a jungle dawn Arcadia 34 watt 22.5” plant light. UVB replaced every 6 months

Lights on at 7 am and off at 7 pm.

• Temperature -Basking ranges from 80-86

Mid cage ranges high 60s-low 70s. He spends most of his time at the top.

Overnight temps are high 60s-low 70s.

I have sensors with Bluetooth readings on an app and temperature gauges you buy from PetSmart

• Humidity - Basking area 40-50%

Lower cage 60-70%

At night humidity is around 20-30%

• Plants - Mainly pothos, Neanthe Bella Palm, some fake plants - no history of eating fake plants or real ones that I’ve seen

• Placement - In living room near a window. The cage sits at least 2 feet off the ground, maybe higher. It sits on a stand.

 

[Beman]

They do not look too bad but yes slightly sunk in. Does look like he may be about to go through a shed. Top of his casque has the opaque look that you will see prior to a shed. Gonna touch on some different areas that I would adjust.

Your Chameleon - Male Panther chameleon, 1 years old. Just got him on June 5th.

He is a little on the thin side. Looking at his limbs, his casque shape, and his cheeks he should be more filled out and muscular for a 1 year old male. This would be a concern for me as it indicates something could be going on with him. May I ask where you got him from or if you got a fecal done to ensure he is not carrying a parasite load?

Feeding - Mainly Dubia roaches with the occasional hornworm/silkworm/wax worm. He gets about 4-5 schmedium roaches every other day. Lately has only been getting roaches. He’s getting blended gutload of greens, orange, apple, sweet potato, bell pepper, yellow squash, carrot, bee pollen, mazuri better bug gutloading diet, repashy superload - mashed up into frozen pellets that I thaw out

So if you are feeding any roach type you want very low protein intake for them. Otherwise they build up uric acid that chameleons have issues processing out which can impact their renal system. So both the mazuri and the repashy superload are too high. Mazuri has a 30% min protein level and repashy superload has a 20% min protein level. Both are just too high for roaches. Your protein for roaches should not be higher than around 13% ish. The higher the protein level the higher their uric acid levels will be when the chameleon ingests them. Repashy bug burger is a good option for commercial gutload you can mix in to get the consistency you want when you are doing the blended and frozen segments. It only has a 13% protein level. So this applies to any roach type. Other insect process it differently so you could use what you have for crickets.

Per feeding a healthy adult you want to watch their weight 4-5 feeders every other day may be too much and you may then need to decrease to 3-4. However I would not decrease this boy. He is too thin.

Supplements - He gets supplemented with calcium without D3 at every feeding everyday, calcium with D3 twice monthly (every other Wednesday) and herptivite twice monthly (every other Wednesday)

I would adjust supplements. Herptivite does not have vitamin A only beta carotene and it has not been proven that they can convert beta carotene into usable vitamin A. Vitamin A is essential for eye and tongue function. I would go ahead and replace both the calcium with D3 and the herptivite with Repashy Calcium Plus LoD version. This is a multivitamin that has both vitamin A and D3. You would use this 2 times a month say the 1st and the 15th then calcium without D3 at all other feedings.

And I have a humidifier off and on ran during the day. It is turned off during night time. It’s pretty dry in Colorado where I live.

If you are running a humidifier in the room during the day to increase ambient room humidity that is fine. But you should not be running a humidifier into the cage during the day. Increased temps and moisture create the perfect situation for a respiratory infection to develop. You can fog at night but you need a good temp drop to do so. I would ensure your temps are getting at least down to 65-67 just for the chameleons needs at night of a cool down.

Schedule for watering
8:00 am- 3 min

11:00 am - 1 min 30 sec

3:00 pm- 2 min

I would remove the 11am misting session. Really do not want to add moisture like this when all lights are on and temps are hotter. The evening and morning ones you may want to lengthen a bit. It takes most 2 minutes just to trigger a drinking response.

Arcadia 100 watt heat lamp, reptisun 22inch 5.0 T5 HO and a jungle dawn Arcadia 34 watt 22.5” plant light. UVB replaced every 6 months

Lights on at 7 am and off at 7 pm.

• Temperature -Basking ranges from 80-86

Mid cage ranges high 60s-low 70s. He spends most of his time at the top.

Overnight temps are high 60s-low 70s.

I have sensors with Bluetooth readings on an app and temperature gauges you buy from PetSmart

• Humidity - Basking area 40-50%

Lower cage 60-70%

At night humidity is around 20-30%

So a few things here... 100 watt bulb is going to produce some high basking temps. The only way to know for sure what your temps are is with a gauge that has a probe. Probe hooked in at the basking branch highest directly below the heat fixture. Another concern with this wattage if it is not being used with a thermostat is you have a higher risk of a thermal burn due to the temps at their back being too hot.

Really want to ensure those overnight temps are sitting in the 60-67 max range. They really need the cool down. And the only way you want to provide fog is in cold temps.

Humidity at night is too low. If you are not fogging in cold air to get high humidity levels then your night time humidity needs to be their daytime minimum. So 50% is a panthers daytime minimum level.

 

[Kaylee1]

They do not look too bad but yes slightly sunk in. Does look like he may be about to go through a shed. Top of his casque has the opaque look that you will see prior to a shed. Gonna touch on some different areas that I would adjust.

He is a little on the thin side. Looking at his limbs, his casque shape, and his cheeks he should be more filled out and muscular for a 1 year old male. This would be a concern for me as it indicates something could be going on with him. May I ask where you got him from or if you got a fecal done to ensure he is not carrying a parasite load?

So if you are feeding any roach type you want very low protein intake for them. Otherwise they build up uric acid that chameleons have issues processing out which can impact their renal system. So both the mazuri and the repashy superload are too high. Mazuri has a 30% min protein level and repashy superload has a 20% min protein level. Both are just too high for roaches. Your protein for roaches should not be higher than around 13% ish. The higher the protein level the higher their uric acid levels will be when the chameleon ingests them. Repashy bug burger is a good option for commercial gutload you can mix in to get the consistency you want when you are doing the blended and frozen segments. It only has a 13% protein level. So this applies to any roach type. Other insect process it differently so you could use what you have for crickets.

Per feeding a healthy adult you want to watch their weight 4-5 feeders every other day may be too much and you may then need to decrease to 3-4. However I would not decrease this boy. He is too thin.

I would adjust supplements. Herptivite does not have vitamin A only beta carotene and it has not been proven that they can convert beta carotene into usable vitamin A. Vitamin A is essential for eye and tongue function. I would go ahead and replace both the calcium with D3 and the herptivite with Repashy Calcium Plus LoD version. This is a multivitamin that has both vitamin A and D3. You would use this 2 times a month say the 1st and the 15th then calcium without D3 at all other feedings.


If you are running a humidifier in the room during the day to increase ambient room humidity that is fine. But you should not be running a humidifier into the cage during the day. Increased temps and moisture create the perfect situation for a respiratory infection to develop. You can fog at night but you need a good temp drop to do so. I would ensure your temps are getting at least down to 65-67 just for the chameleons needs at night of a cool down.

I would remove the 11am misting session. Really do not want to add moisture like this when all lights are on and temps are hotter. The evening and morning ones you may want to lengthen a bit. It takes most 2 minutes just to trigger a drinking response.

So a few things here... 100 watt bulb is going to produce some high basking temps. The only way to know for sure what your temps are is with a gauge that has a probe. Probe hooked in at the basking branch highest directly below the heat fixture. Another concern with this wattage if it is not being used with a thermostat is you have a higher risk of a thermal burn due to the temps at their back being too hot.

Really want to ensure those overnight temps are sitting in the 60-67 max range. They really need the cool down. And the only way you want to provide fog is in cold temps.

Humidity at night is too low. If you are not fogging in cold air to get high humidity levels then your night time humidity needs to be their daytime minimum. So 50% is a panthers daytime minimum level.

Ok I was able to make a vet appointment today actually.
Oh great to know about supplements. I actually have my frozen mix that I thaw with majority of those veggies and fruits mentioned and only small spoonfuls of the dry mixes within a large sized blender. I do have repashy bug burger so I will only mix that instead with the veggies/fruits. Is bee pollen still ok?

Ok and switch to Repashy Calcium Plus LoD instead of both the herptivite and d3 I’m doing currently? Twice a month?

I have been going back and fourth on research for humidifier info and misting info trying to figure out what’s best. I just worry that the humidifier at night would create a moist environment too since it’s cooler at night? Or no? And what time should I do the two misting sessions then? 3 min a piece or longer?


I did forget to mention that I have gauges both in basking/top and middle/bottom-ish of the cage and I do have a dimmer on my heat lamp so I can adjust the heat intensity as needed. I did screen shot the graphs of temps and humidity in both the top and bottom parts of the cage my gauges caught within the last month. I guess humidity is higher than I thought. I also screenshot the current temps right now 6/6 mid day at 11am my time.

 

[Kaylee1]

They do not look too bad but yes slightly sunk in. Does look like he may be about to go through a shed. Top of his casque has the opaque look that you will see prior to a shed. Gonna touch on some different areas that I would adjust.

He is a little on the thin side. Looking at his limbs, his casque shape, and his cheeks he should be more filled out and muscular for a 1 year old male. This would be a concern for me as it indicates something could be going on with him. May I ask where you got him from or if you got a fecal done to ensure he is not carrying a parasite load?

So if you are feeding any roach type you want very low protein intake for them. Otherwise they build up uric acid that chameleons have issues processing out which can impact their renal system. So both the mazuri and the repashy superload are too high. Mazuri has a 30% min protein level and repashy superload has a 20% min protein level. Both are just too high for roaches. Your protein for roaches should not be higher than around 13% ish. The higher the protein level the higher their uric acid levels will be when the chameleon ingests them. Repashy bug burger is a good option for commercial gutload you can mix in to get the consistency you want when you are doing the blended and frozen segments. It only has a 13% protein level. So this applies to any roach type. Other insect process it differently so you could use what you have for crickets.

Per feeding a healthy adult you want to watch their weight 4-5 feeders every other day may be too much and you may then need to decrease to 3-4. However I would not decrease this boy. He is too thin.

I would adjust supplements. Herptivite does not have vitamin A only beta carotene and it has not been proven that they can convert beta carotene into usable vitamin A. Vitamin A is essential for eye and tongue function. I would go ahead and replace both the calcium with D3 and the herptivite with Repashy Calcium Plus LoD version. This is a multivitamin that has both vitamin A and D3. You would use this 2 times a month say the 1st and the 15th then calcium without D3 at all other feedings.


If you are running a humidifier in the room during the day to increase ambient room humidity that is fine. But you should not be running a humidifier into the cage during the day. Increased temps and moisture create the perfect situation for a respiratory infection to develop. You can fog at night but you need a good temp drop to do so. I would ensure your temps are getting at least down to 65-67 just for the chameleons needs at night of a cool down.

I would remove the 11am misting session. Really do not want to add moisture like this when all lights are on and temps are hotter. The evening and morning ones you may want to lengthen a bit. It takes most 2 minutes just to trigger a drinking response.

So a few things here... 100 watt bulb is going to produce some high basking temps. The only way to know for sure what your temps are is with a gauge that has a probe. Probe hooked in at the basking branch highest directly below the heat fixture. Another concern with this wattage if it is not being used with a thermostat is you have a higher risk of a thermal burn due to the temps at their back being too hot.

Really want to ensure those overnight temps are sitting in the 60-67 max range. They really need the cool down. And the only way you want to provide fog is in cold temps.

Humidity at night is too low. If you are not fogging in cold air to get high humidity levels then your night time humidity needs to be their daytime minimum. So 50% is a panthers daytime minimum level.

Whoops forgot to mention. I just got him June 5th shipped from a breeder in CA - off of morph market.

 

[Kaylee1]

Ok I was able to make a vet appointment today actually.
Oh great to know about supplements. I actually have the little mixed pellets with majority of those veggies and fruits mentioned and only small spoonfuls of the dry mixes within a large sized blender. I do have repashy bug burger so I will only mix that instead with the veggies/fruits. Is bee pollen still ok?

Ok and switch to Repashy Calcium Plus LoD instead of both the herptivite and d3 I’m doing currently? Twice a month?

I have been going back and fourth on research for humidifier info and misting info trying to figure out what’s best. I just worry that the humidifier at night would create a moist environment too since it’s cooler at night? Or no? And what time should I do the two misting sessions then? 3 min a piece or longer?


I did forget to mention that I have gauges both in basking/top and middle/bottom-ish of the cage and I do have a dimmer on my heat lamp so I can adjust the heat intensity as needed. I did screen shot the graphs of temps and humidity in both the top and bottom parts of the cage my gauges caught within the last month. I guess humidity is higher than I thought. This is also the current temps right now, mid day at 11am my time.

And those graphs range 24 hrs so I believe the highest points are obviously during the day and low points are during the night.

 

[Beman]

Ok I was able to make a vet appointment today actually.
Oh great to know about supplements. I actually have my frozen mix that I thaw with majority of those veggies and fruits mentioned and only small spoonfuls of the dry mixes within a large sized blender. I do have repashy bug burger so I will only mix that instead with the veggies/fruits. Is bee pollen still ok?

Ok and switch to Repashy Calcium Plus LoD instead of both the herptivite and d3 I’m doing currently? Twice a month?

I have been going back and fourth on research for humidifier info and misting info trying to figure out what’s best. I just worry that the humidifier at night would create a moist environment too since it’s cooler at night? Or no? And what time should I do the two misting sessions then? 3 min a piece or longer?


I did forget to mention that I have gauges both in basking/top and middle/bottom-ish of the cage and I do have a dimmer on my heat lamp so I can adjust the heat intensity as needed. I did screen shot the graphs of temps and humidity in both the top and bottom parts of the cage my gauges caught within the last month. I guess humidity is higher than I thought. I also screenshot the current temps right now 6/6 mid day at 11am my time.

Ok hopefully you were able to take in a fresh fecal sample to get tested. I highly recommend this for him. Bee pollen in the gutload is perfectly fine.
Yes, repashy calcium plus LoD is 2 times a month only then calcium without D3 at all other feedings.

So humidity+cold temp with air circulation= good. where you will have higher risk is humid environment + temps that are too warm. This is where your risk comes in and you elevate risk of a respiratory infection. So if you can not get temps cold enough you should never fog into the cage at night. You can add additional mistings to bump humidity at night or place a humidifier in the room to increase the ambient room levels. These are two options if you can not get cage temps low enough.

With your devices you use for temp and humidity. Look at the humidity and temps hour by hour. This will make it clear where levels are sitting in the cage. That huge graph just shows me they are all over the place.
You should see a spike in humidity after a misting session. Then with this you should see a temp decrease as well. Within about an our or so your humidity should reduce back down. Looking for that 50% ish range during day time lights on hours. Keep in mind basking level will always sit less humid and warmer. If your basking level is sitting more then 80 then that means your getting hotter temps then you realize from your lighting or you have that sensor near your basking lamp which you would want to move it to the other side. Should not use these to determine basking temp. You will not get as accurate of a ready. You want a guage with a probe on it to hook in below the heat at the branch to give you a more accurate reading. If it says it is 85 at the branch your temps are higher where the cham rises off the branch. Looking for the basking temp where they rise up to sit 80-85. Which means at the branch your readings could be 77-82.

Whoops forgot to mention. I just got him June 5th shipped from a breeder in CA - off of morph market.

Due to this get the fecal test to rule out a parasite load... Anyone can sell off that site and you do not know how that person really cares for their chams or the precautions they take to ensure they are healthy. Due to his body tone and size along with age this would be a concern for me. As he is showing signs of not being 100% healthy. Granted it may not be parasites at all and could just be due to not having good care but safer to rule it out then just hope it is fine. If you did not take the fecal in the vet should be willing to let you drop one off to be tested since they have seen him now.