Do you see MBD?? -Help Peepers PLEASE!!

[Katacara]

So i posted these pictures while asking a question in another area (here is the link for anyone who wants it https://www.chameleonforums.com/thr...wn-questions-help-please.158869/#post-1362980), and one of the replies said they thought they could see bending of MBD so now naturally i am in a complete panic!!!! Does anyone else see signs of MBD??

 

[etclement]

I think the development of the casque and possible curvature of one of the back legs certainly points toward it. Could you post your supplementation, feeding, and lighting schedules, as well as your lighting setup and pics of the cage, please?

 

[Katacara]

Here are some other pictures I thought might be helpful

 

[etclement]

The bending of that leg indicates a problem

 

[Katacara]

Here is a picture of my cage and indoor free range set up. In his cage there is a basil, mint, rosemary, and sage plant. I dust the feeder crickets I give him everyday, but he doesn't gobble them down fast like I have seen other people post about. I gutload with dry gutload from hornworms.com as well as a verity of fresh greens and such I researched on the blogs and resources tabs. I have tried to feed hornworms, mealworms, and wax worms also but he has not touched them. I am currently free range cage feeding because I have been unable to find a feeder box he will eat out of. He does love to eat insects outside when I take him out. I try to take him out at least every other day for natural light. He has a uvb light and heat lamp that are on for 12-14 hours a day.

 

[Katacara]

I am totally freaking out, because he came to me only 3 weeks ago and he was so small, he had to be already affected. I just want to do everything I can to help my Peepers!!

 

[Katacara]

This is the setup i rescued my Peepers from:

I have gone back through the gutloading and supplement blogs and will be shopping tomorrow to fill in some holes in the verity of offerings for my feeder crickets. I am also going to give making a feeder box another try so I can closely monitor how many crickets Peepers is eating. That will also let me take them out at mid-day, and insure that he is eating crickets that are properly gut loaded and dusted. I have worked out a new dusting schedule as:
Week 1 & 3 Wed - Mon dusting without D3, Tue dusting with D3
Week 3 & 4 Wed - Mon dusting without D3, Tue dusting without D3 and with multivitamin
If anyone has any tips or advice I will gladly take it!! I just want to get and keep Peepers healthy and happy!!

 

[Veild Cham Owner]

I am assuming u r dusting ur crx with calcium and multivitamins correct?

 

[etclement]

Just dust every day with plain Calcium, twice a month with D3 Calcium, and twice a month with a multivitamin. Also, what model of uvb lamp are you using, what kind is it, and when did you get it?

 

[Katacara]

I am currently using a 15 watt - T8 - BP tropical 25

I do have a 5.0 reptisun 13 watt bulb I could switch to if that would be better.

I got both uv B's 3 weeks ago when I bought Peepers home.

 

[etclement]

Not really sure about that zilla bulb. Is the reptisun a tube or CFL?

 

[jajeanpierre]

@Katacara I don't see any limb deformities. He might have MBD, but I don't see it. To me, the casque looks like a deformity. He might have hatched that way. It just seems too even and too healed to be an injury such as a burn. Congenital deformities are fairly common and little is really known. Temperature variations during incubation can have an affect.

All that said, it is possible that he hatched with MBD because his mother didn't have the calcium and vitamin resources to put enough into the egg. That is quite common with veileds. It costs money to properly nourish mothers and veileds wholesale for about $8 a piece.

If I had just purchased a young veiled, I would assume he has MBD whether it is obvious or not. That means be super vigilant about his UVB and calcium.

You are lucky on two counts--you have a male so you don't have eggs to deal with that will deplete what calcium stores the baby has and it is summer. Get that baby out into natural sunlight early in the morning before it gets too hot. Be very careful to monitor the temperatures and the humidity very closely. Dappled light under a tree is also good because the area will be cooler and the baby can get in or out of the sun easily and the cage won't heat up. Hot and dry air kills babies really quickly. If you can get baby out for an hour every day, great, but if not try on the weekends. Any natural sunlight is a million times better than a bulb.

Also be aware that MBD is caused by things other than nutrition (calcium and Vitamin D3 from UVB). MBD can also be caused by kidney failure. Kidney failure is a huge problem with chameleons. It is often caused by chronic dehydration. Most pet owners keep their chameleons in basically desert environments and that is not how they want to be kept. Veileds developed in the Arabian Peninsula at a time when it was lush and green. A chameleon can dehydrate because the air is too dry even with access to lots of water and misting.

Good luck. He's very cute.

 

[Veild Cham Owner]

If u have a uvb bulb, bring him out every once and a while for natural light, and change ur uvb every 6 months u don't need D3 (my vet told me and my Cham has been doing gr8 w/o it.) Over "dusting" as he said could be dangerous and could b very harmful. Dust with calcium w/o D3 every feeding and once a week with multivitamin and u should be good

 

[kinyonga]

We are not recommending overdusting...but we recommend dusting lightly with the phosphorous-free calcium/D3 twice a month because this gives the chameleon some without overdoing it and leaving it to produce the rest of the D3 from its exposure to the UVB light/sunlight. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to the UVB light won't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of the UVB at will .this twice a month dusting is just insurance of sorts.

 

[Katacara]

Thank you all for your help and advice!! I hope that I am on a better track now! I built a feeder cup (picture below). I am testing it out in the morning to see how it goes. I have a huge verity of veggies and fruit to gutload with, and I added powdered sunflower seed, almond, Italian seasoning , and a touch of coconut to the dry gutloader I bought from hornworm.com.

I do still have a few questions though... How do I know if the crickets are eating enough of the gutload? It seems that there is always so much left over, am I just putting to much in? Is it alright to gutload with foods that have been frozen? Is it ok to dry out fresh greens like kale and collard greens and use them in my dry gutload?

 

[etclement]

I added powdered sunflower seed, almond, Italian seasoning , and a touch of coconut to the dry gutloader I bought from hornworm.com.

I've never heard any of those ingredients being added into a gutload, did you get them from a list somewhere? Also here is a list of good gutload ingredients. It's from an iguana caresheet but the nutritional value is about the same. http://www.greenigsociety.org/foodchart.htm

 

[etclement]

Also stay away from the pasta and bread it lists there, I would just stick to the things it lists as staple for starters

 

[Andee]

This likely isn't your fault, he likely either hatched this way as Janet said, but it literally could take only a couple weeks in my opinion at this age without good supplementing, a good gutload, and a uvb source. But I think some natural sun regularly a few times a week and good supplementation he will come around.

 

[Andee]

I use sunflower seeds and almonds powdered down, and also use dessicated coconut. And I use some dried herbs but not italian seasoning for all the unnecessary stuff usually added to premade seasoning mixes. There are a lot of things along those lines I use in my powdered gutload.