Edema

Kaizen

Chameleon Enthusiast
Thought I’d share some data just to throw a wrench in the gears of complacency. So, my supplement regime for the last year or so has been earth pro a at every feeding. I don’t bother with the whole calcium pro at every 8th or 14th feeding, I just mix the two together at about 10 parts earth pro a to one part calcium pro. I don’t use any fat soluble vitamins, choosing to rely instead on dialed-in uvb (for d3) and as many carotenoids I can (for A). One would think that my biggest concern would be vitamin A deficiency. And that is something I always watch out for.

Recently, however, my female pardalis started showing signs of edema. “What?”you ask! Of all the species available in the hobby, aren’t panthers and veileds supposed to be the least sensitive to over supplementation? The answer is yes! Indeed two of the most used products for both species are Repashy calcium plus, and calcium plus LoD. Both have fat soluble vitamins d3 and A, and both are used by thousands at every feeding. However, for whatever reason, my female pardalis developed edema—and this despite the very mild supplementation regime I follow. Of course, something else could certainly be going on, but I decided to switch her to straight calcium with NO d3, and rely on my gutload for any additional vitamins. Lo and behold, within a few days the edema disappeared. And she’s been perfect since.

The point here is not to blame or praise any particular supplement regime, but to note that individuals of even the most tolerant species are individuals, and have their own particular make-up, metabolism, etc. My supplement regime works for all my montanes with no problem, but for whatever reason, my female panther became sensitive to it (or at least that’s my working hypothesis).

Sometimes you can have text-book husbandry, and it just isn’t working for your Cham. Anyways, I just thought I’d share this little data point.
 
I have been doing some research on this. I do not have it all together, but there does seem to be more at play than just supplements. We often look at the nutritional values of our feeders, but don't take into account the whole picture. One odd thing I found was some research papers, more than one, suggest the nutritional value of bees is as high as 50% and ash (general idea of mineral content) as much as double roaches, or crickets. So what it happening, I believe that volume of feeders is far more critical than we think. Further the curse is that once renal damage occurs, in can not be fixed, but only monitored. There seems to be a couple other factors as well, hydration being a big one. As I say I do not have it all together, but it seeming like the problem is sort of cumulative. In that I mean a cham can get dehydrated, he may show no signs, but then then it occurs again ant it gets worse. Still no signs, but his/her ability to process these minerals and supplements is decreased, again leading to more damage. This would explain why it occurs in chams that are past 2 yrs , even ones haveing been cared for the proper way. If over supplementation or dehydration occurred before you got him ie Petco, then you start from a rough spot.
 
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You might be on to something, but I think lifespan is also part of the picture. In the wild 90% of veileds don’t make it past 1 year, and panthers about 2. In captivity we’re seeing 7+ years. So it really is a mystery, as we can’t really look to nature to figure out how to keep our most popular species past the 2 year mark. And this lands us exactly where we are: in a quagmire.
 
You might be on to something, but I think lifespan is also part of the picture. In the wild 90% of veileds don’t make it past 1 year, and panthers about 2. In captivity we’re seeing 7+ years. So it really is a mystery, as we can’t really look to nature to figure out how to keep our most popular species past the 2 year mark. And this lands us exactly where we are: in a quagmire.

Exactly. For all we know it is , or would be, the same in the wild if they lived longer. It is like comparing cancer rates from 100 years ago to now. People were dead by 50 then.
 
Ya know yall are really smart.... You notice we typically see edema in chams that are passed that 1 year mark. Even those on the right supplements. Look at how some females have prolonged issues of edema... HMMMMMM
 
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