Enclosure type and height?

[Kimmers]

Caveat: I'm confused and seeking information NOT looking for shortcuts!

Since chams require relatively high humidity, why use a screen cage vs. part glass enclosure? I've read air flow is important but not why. This seems to be contradictory. Wouldn't glass give better control of humidity because it would require less misting? Although I know chams drink that way, couldn't a drip system somewhat compensate?

Next, I am NOT looking for shortcut but for understanding the needs of a cham.
Why couldn't for example a 40 gal. breeder tank be used? I know chams are arboreal so height is obviously an issue but wouldn't the length make up for the difference? IF IF IF a person used it, the enclosure would have to be highly planted and have many, many, perching places near and away from the basking source. Ventilation would have to be considered as well in the form of a screen top partially covered. Of course extensive temperature and humidity would have to be conducted. So I guess I'm asking why this would be bad? I totally get it's not ideal!

Last and related to above, how much time do chams spend at the top vs. bottom? I understand the need for gradient and basking. Does it depend on the individual/breed/age? I've seen pictures of very tall screen enclosures that have one or two large potted plants. Do the chams ever spend much time around the pots? Is then the height sometimes only for viewing pleasure? I know at my age it's not always easy to kneel for any length of time. I'd rather look at something eye or chair level!

Thanks again!! Kimmers

 

[carol5208]

Chameleons are prone to respiratory infections and if the air is stagnant it can cause an issue with that. If you turn a fish tank on its side and screen the front it could work. Setting it horizontally the air at the bottom has no wher to vent like in a terrarium. As far as them liking it high or low, most prefer to be high up but I have one guy who likes to sit on the bottom all the time! There is no health reason that I can see, he just likes it down there whether he is inside or outside in both cages!

 

[camimom]

Ok...

chams need air flow because if there isnt any, stagnant air can create mold, as well as respiratory infections.

Glass also makes it harder to regulate the temperatures. Too hot can kill.


Some chams require higher humidity than others, like jacksons, but, live plants help this alot.

like you said, chams are arboreal, when they dont have space to go up, they can get stressed out. they feel safer when they can sit above us. more height than width is better since this allows them to feel safe. Stress can cause illness.

Chams dont spend hardly any time on the ground/pot level. if they do, its normally a sign of illness, egg laying time, or over heating.

I have four chams, they spend almost ALL their time at the top of their cage to bask. chams enjoy basking under actual lights, instead of just getting heat from the air (like we do).

the only time my chams went to the bottom of the cage was when my female was laying eggs, and my males were exploring their territory. then they climb back to the top.


hope this helps!

 

[ISA my Veiled]

Alright, basically a lot of people use the screen over the glass for several reasons. here are some of them:

1. The air flow balances out the humidity, keep water building up with bacteria that causes mold and infections(screen allows the water to dry faster and keep it from causing mold all around the enclosure) and since you are going to need to be misting and such it is very important that the water isn't sitting so much because it is a breeding ground for bacteria which causes nasty infections and can lead to premature death.

2. The drainage is way better for a screen cage rather than an aquarium/ Terrarium. It allows the water to get through without problem most of the time, and all you have to do is create a simple system to allow water to drain into a bin underneath that you change every so often. With the Aquarium it will hold that access water and like I said previously can lead to a number of things such as infections and mold.

3. Less stress for the Chameleon! Seeing itself in the glass can really cause a lot of stress because they think it is another chameleon. A lot of stress can lead to premature death and not to mention. The ventilation isn't as good as a screen cage because for the most part it is closed off. It also retains a lot of heat which in most cases isn't good for a lot of chameleons considering they need 75-90 depending on the chameleon for basking temps. That is just part of the reasons why a lot of us choose screen cages.

As you said previous they are Arboreal creatures, so a lot of them stay more towards the top, I know mine (Female Veiled Chameleon) will go to the bottom to adventure around and soon she will be doing that to find a nesting place to lay her eggs, but for the most part I think a lot of people would tell you that their chameleons spend more time on their perches and such. I hope more people can expand on what I said, this is just part of some information I have researched and Im just typing off the top of my head at the moment. JannB would be able to clarify most of this and could add to what i have said, hope this helps!!

 

[Kimmers]

Wow!

All my questions answered minutes after I posted!! Really I'm completely blown away by this forum and it's members!!

Totally get it now. The bacteria issue makes sense. Regular glass terrariums get mold easily if airflow and humidity aren't watched carefully. It hadn't occured to me that applies to glass tanks too.

(I'll tell my friend, thanks but no!)

 

[carol5208]

Ok...

chams need air flow because if there isnt any, stagnant air can create mold, as well as respiratory infections.

Glass also makes it harder to regulate the temperatures. Too hot can kill.


Some chams require higher humidity than others, like jacksons, but, live plants help this alot.

like you said, chams are arboreal, when they dont have space to go up, they can get stressed out. they feel safer when they can sit above us. more height than width is better since this allows them to feel safe. Stress can cause illness.

Chams dont spend hardly any time on the ground/pot level. if they do, its normally a sign of illness, egg laying time, or over heating.

I have four chams, they spend almost ALL their time at the top of their cage to bask. chams enjoy basking under actual lights, instead of just getting heat from the air (like we do).

the only time my chams went to the bottom of the cage was when my female was laying eggs, and my males were exploring their territory. then they climb back to the top.


hope this helps!

haha Jess, Lenny is a freak!!! He loves being on the ground and walking around!

 

[camimom]

haha Jess, Lenny is a freak!!! He loves being on the ground and walking around!

Very true. lol. Lenny is a strange chammie.. hes the exception though!!!!

 

[Kimmers]

Hmmm,

I've been going over in my mind the screen vs. glass issue while I ate my lunch. It may be my breaking point.

If I get a baby I've read a small glass tank would be fine until 4 mo. That's doable in my office but temporary. Older would mean a screen enclosure and that isn't going to work. The only location I have for the enclosure would be a water clean-up nightmare. (sigh) I have binders and sometimes loose papers or file folders on that countertop. I have flexability for caretaking time but add the water issue and I just don't know.

So many things to consider ... rethinking ...

 

[camimom]

Why would it be at your office?
why not at home?

 

[Kimmers]

A couple reasons

Basically I would like a living, breathing creature to share my day with. (Co-workers don't count. Creatures don't *itch about anything. ) Specifically a chameleon because I have been so capitvated by them for years.

Why at work? I spend more awake time there than home. I'm there from 6:45 AM until 3:30 PM, M-F. That's about 8 hrs. a day. It's daytime when the cham is most active. It will be in view all day. I have time to do caretaking. I'd have timers on lights and an automist system. I can go in on weekends. I'm about a mile away and have building keys.

Home would be 4:00 until bed at 9:30 or 10 PM; about 6 hours. Have to shop, laundry, cook and do household chores. The chameleon would be getting ready to rest; not very active. I sleep about 7 hours. Next morning shower, eat, get reday and off to the office again.

I have given consideration to other reptiles but have had to eliminate them. Leoperd/Crested Gecko - nocturnal, Day Gecko - fragile, Frogs - sing, other lizards - desert dwelling, Snake - would not go over well with co-workers.

 

[Irwinthechameleon]

Caveat: I'm confused and seeking information NOT looking for shortcuts!

Since chams require relatively high humidity, why use a screen cage vs. part glass enclosure? I've read air flow is important but not why. This seems to be contradictory. Wouldn't glass give better control of humidity because it would require less misting? Although I know chams drink that way, couldn't a drip system somewhat compensate?

Next, I am NOT looking for shortcut but for understanding the needs of a cham.
Why couldn't for example a 40 gal. breeder tank be used? I know chams are arboreal so height is obviously an issue but wouldn't the length make up for the difference? IF IF IF a person used it, the enclosure would have to be highly planted and have many, many, perching places near and away from the basking source. Ventilation would have to be considered as well in the form of a screen top partially covered. Of course extensive temperature and humidity would have to be conducted. So I guess I'm asking why this would be bad? I totally get it's not ideal!

Last and related to above, how much time do chams spend at the top vs. bottom? I understand the need for gradient and basking. Does it depend on the individual/breed/age? I've seen pictures of very tall screen enclosures that have one or two large potted plants. Do the chams ever spend much time around the pots? Is then the height sometimes only for viewing pleasure? I know at my age it's not always easy to kneel for any length of time. I'd rather look at something eye or chair level!

Thanks again!! Kimmers

They need an a boreal tank because they almost always are at the top of the cage. They only go down to regulate their heat if it'd too hot.
I heard that it's not just the bad air circulation. That can kill a chameleon but their reflection also.

 

[Carlton]

Caveat: I'm confused and seeking information NOT looking for shortcuts!

Since chams require relatively high humidity, why use a screen cage vs. part glass enclosure? I've read air flow is important but not why. Why couldn't for example a 40 gal. breeder tank be used?

The basic problem we are trying to deal with in keeping chams is that their wild habitat is humid...over an entire forest region, not just their small immediate space. So, they get both humidity AND pretty constant air flow. When we put them in our houses and try to humidify a small space like a cage, we lose the airflow. Because chams are adapted to living above the ground they are more sensitive to air quality and air exchange and also adapted to need more extreme temp gradients from hour to hour and day to night. It it just a harder situation to recreate in captivity without using a greenhouse or room sized enclosure.

Tanks (unless they are VERY large which means VERY expensive), tend to form limited temp gradients and don't provide as much air exchange as a cage does. In the US, most keepers prefer using a modified type of cage. In the EU they have more experience designing tank systems to deal with houses that may not be centrally heated or cooled with forced air.

There is a fix for this dilemma...a cage with flexible plastic sheeting or paneling that you can adjust for season, temps, humidity as necessary. You may not need to enclose the cage as much in summer or winter depending on where you live. Covering some sides or back and front of a cage also protects the surroundings from spray and fog. It works!