Euthanasia

sandrachameleon

sandrachameleon

Chameleon Enthusiast
The topic is potentially controversial, so let's assume for this thread that the act of humanely killing animals that are horribly in pain, hopelessly sick or injured is acceptable.

Decapitation or cervical dislocation (a sharp blow to the head) is not humane nor is it acceptable to me.
Freezing is horrible, painful, certainly not humane and not acceptable to me.
Injection of barbiturates isnt an option for me, as I am not a vet or otherwise legally able to do so.

I am wondering about humane methods that dont require a vet.

So my Question: Is CO2 gas suitable for euthanizing reptiles?
I know someone who uses this to kill rats.
 
This is a tough one.

The unfortunate thing is that we all care so much about our animals that there really isnt a good answer. I simply dont want them to suffer.

But staying on your premise that it is acceptable.

Carbon Dioxide, will cause the animal to "fall asleep" while it suffocates the body of oxygen, thus causing death. I would dare say that the physical pain would be virtually non-existent as the "passing" occurred.

However, not to sound to grotesque, if we are simply considering what the animal is actually physically experiencing (feeling), and trying to minimize that and having a "quick" passing. Would using something like Ether (if its available to be obtained) to cause the animal to sleep have the same effect?

In which case, since the animal would be asleep, you could use whatever method of euthanasia you felt most comfortable with.

Again, a very tough and difficult topic. I certainly hope that this was simply for discussion purposes, but I fear its not.
 
Given what you've ruled out already, you have very limited choices. Destruction (instant) of the brain would be the most humane in terms of being instant and pain free, however the catch is how you acheive that.

C02 is not reccomended for reptiles due their metabolism. (high tolerance to hypoxia =prolonged and therefore not humane nor garanteed, should be followed by brain destruction)

Anesthesia/Barbiturate use is the least 'horrific' and most humane method.
 
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This is a tough one. I do not use the freezer because of the pain they suffer.

Having them put to sleep requires a vet. I do not see why the vet couldn't be of assistance in middle of a situation?

I wouldn't think you would need much of an appointment. Just call and let them know that you'r animal is in serious pain, I want my animal to be put to slee right away. Is it just an injection? I have heard it costs no more than 15 dollars.

I also have a good relationship with the two vets I see.

If I had no other choice other than ending it myself... I think I would use a mini axe or something similar, something with decent weight, to end it's pain. As confident, and fast as possible.

This is a sad topic, but it is very real, and I havnt given it much thought.
 
"Youth in Asia"

I have held my own cham, and done everything to keep him comfortable , for hours before while they struggled to take their last breathes in a natural way. While I am not necessarily opposed to the idea of euthanasia... I have in the past opted to let them pass natural. Given this was a case of a rapid decline in an older rescue.

However, if Co2 does not work with reptiles like stated, I personally believe that a quick cervical dislocation would be the most quick and painless execution, but I don't think I could ever bring myself to do that to a cham no matter how sick, that's just me though.

~Joe
 
Ether or chloroform is certainly NOT a painless euthanizing, since inhaling these compounds it will make the animal burn their lungs and airpipe. I'm a pharmacist and PhD toxicology. In my lab we "work" with laboratory animals. Depending on the age of the animal only a few certified methods are allowed to euthanize them. Cervical dislocation is one of these methods although i strongly discourage this method for untrained people since this will cause more pain to the animal when done improperly then letting them die without intervening. The most human way to put them to sleep is either injection with a fast working barbiturate or other anesthetic and after that overdosage. Though immediate overdosage can cause (epileptic) convulsions. Personally i recommend to either let the animal die by itself (since for unexperienced people all the methods will just cause more pain and problems) or go to a vet or trained friend that can do it for you. You could also use isofluranegas or CO (not CO2) gas to get them a sleep, but the availability for non-scientific people is almost non-existing i think.
And also be careful not to put yourself to sleep :)

best regards

Joery
 
I actually had to euthanize Goliath. I had him for 3 years 2 months and 12 days. He wasn't eating, and hadn't for four days.
He wasn't climbing at all, he was grabbing on to his other appendages, and i didn't want him to suffer,
because it was almost seven days since his agony began. I think i read it in Francois Le Berre's New Chameleon Handbook.
But I wrapped Goliath [C J Xantholophus] in a towel and put him in my meat freezer. It's the most humane way of easing the long painful battle.
 
there is a guy down here, who will sell gas chambers for euthanasia. you just put the animal in the sealed container, and it breathes in "whippets" of CO2, and quickly passes out and dies. that is the most humane way, other than barbiturates i know of.
 
What about CO (Carbon Monoxide)? Most news reports of people that die of CO poisoning say they died peacefully in their sleep.
But I don't know how this gas affects reptiles. Fortunately, I never had to euthanize any of my pets (I alway took them to the vet and had to leave before they start)
 
Interesting comments everyone. Thank you.

For clarification, I dont have a chameleon in poor health or any other condition that suggests euthanasia. It was seeing the effectivness of C02 for putting rats to death humanely (to later be used as snake food) that got me wondering. Im one of those people squeemish about killing cute furry things, like rats, yet it wasnt as horrible as I expected. I wondered if this would be an option for reptiles, assuming euthanasia of some kind was deemed the only humane option. It seems it is not.
 
I agree that freezing isn't the best method. Cold hurts. Ice crystals rupture cell membranes causing pain. The reptile will succumb to the effects of the cold much faster than you and I but the chance that he feels the pain of the cold, even for a second makes it not something I would do.

CO2 is the best way for the common man to do it without going to a vet.

JJ said CO2 is not recommended for reptiles due their metabolism. (high tolerance to hypoxia =prolonged and therefore not humane nor guaranteed, should be followed by brain destruction)
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I didn't know they had the capacity to survive a CO2 environment. Last time I checked, outside of the deep sea thermal vents, All non-plant lifeforms on this planet require Oxygen, No Oxygen no life.

In the past when I had to put a reptile down (remember I worked at a shop as a youth) we used the CO2 method. I would let the CO2 run into the "chamber" for a few hrs to prep it. Leaving very little if any O2 in there. The animal, when placed in the chamber would almost immediately fall asleep. Just like you and I, as long as we are getting "something" in our lungs we don't notice the lack of O2, until euphoria sets in. Followed by instant sleep and subsequent death.

I would leave the animal in there for a couple of hrs to make sure they had passed. Not once did I ever see an animal struggle or wake up.

That's also how we put down our feeders.

edit: I'd like to hear how the big breeders handle this. Especially when it's culling time.
 
Pure said:
I didn't know they had the capacity to survive a CO2 environment. Last time I checked, outside of the deep sea thermal vents, All non-plant lifeforms on this planet require Oxygen, No Oxygen no life.

In the past when I had to put a reptile down (remember I worked at a shop as a youth) we used the CO2 method. I would let the CO2 run into the "chamber" for a few hrs to prep it. Leaving very little if any O2 in there. The animal, when placed in the chamber would almost immediately fall asleep. Just like you and I, as long as we are getting "something" in our lungs we don't notice the lack of O2, until euphoria sets in. Followed by instant sleep and subsequent death.

I would leave the animal in there for a couple of hrs to make sure they had passed. Not once did I ever see an animal struggle or wake up.
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I definitely second this. It's very tough for anyone to argue against CO2 as a humane euthanasia technique. Although, just to be sure, I would still perform something else to be sure -- cervical dislocation, thoracotomoy being the common and simple.

I can't add anything with regards to reptiles "coming back" from the dead, but I have heard one first-hand account of someone's mice coming back to life a few hours after being CO2-euthanized. This, though, was associated with a gas chamber with a poor seal on it, and the mice were not "killed" for a second time afterwards, nor were the bodies frozen. Better safe than sorry. . .

Drew
 
I didn't know they had the capacity to survive a CO2 environment. Last time I checked, outside of the deep sea thermal vents, All non-plant lifeforms on this planet require Oxygen, No Oxygen no life.
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A high tolerance to hypoxia is not to say they wont die, just thats its slow and therefore not considered humane and further that without physical destruction of the brain afterward, cannot be garanteed, unless you leave the herp in the chamber overnight, nobodys going to do that pure.

Euthanasia means 'good death' and is widely regarded to include quick death. Reptiles gassed with carbon monoxide have recovered after being thought dead. Again, high tolerance to hypoxia (lack of oxygen) is not claiming they can live without oxygen, simply that compared to mammals, they need very little of it and can survive for quite some time on extremely low levels (stored in the blood).

Examples of decapitated reptiles shown to continue brain activity for up to 90 minutes afterward prove it so, despite your sarcasm.
Yes it can be done, but its hardly the best method.
 
Luckily I have yet to be faced with the making this tough choice. However as someone else mentioned earlier, I too have used a CO2 chamber in the past to kill mice. I would put dry ice in one of those critter cages with the vented lid, and place that into a cooler. Then just pour some water on the ice to get the carbon dioxide going, then just place the mice in and close the lid. The mice would be sleeping in minutes, but I always left them in there for a good 30 minutes just to be sure. I am surprised to hear that this method wouldn't work with a reptile too?
 
I know this sounds a bit barbaric but when i kept snakes i would just hold the rat by the tail and wack its head really hard on a metal table. I don't want to sound heartless i could never do this to any other creature but a rat i hate them they are not cute and furry they are filthy vermin and besides what the snake was gonna do would be far worse.
 
ocular_factitus said:
I actually had to euthanize Goliath. I had him for 3 years 2 months and 12 days. He wasn't eating, and hadn't for four days.
He wasn't climbing at all, he was grabbing on to his other appendages, and i didn't want him to suffer,
because it was almost seven days since his agony began. I think i read it in Francois Le Berre's New Chameleon Handbook.
But I wrapped Goliath [C J Xantholophus] in a towel and put him in my meat freezer. It's the most humane way of easing the long painful battle.
Click to expand...

That is a rather young cham to call old. Also, not eating for 4 days isn't a big deal. Sounds like this was a fixable issue.
 
ciafardo 4 said:
I know this sounds a bit barbaric but when i kept snakes i would just hold the rat by the tail and wack its head really hard on a metal table. I don't want to sound heartless i could never do this to any other creature but a rat i hate them they are not cute and furry they are filthy vermin and besides what the snake was gonna do would be far worse.
Click to expand...

Thats not too uncommon. I've seen videos on Youtube of people who pin a mouses head down with feeding tongs, then jerk the tail to seperate the spine. Effective, but I'll stick with my dry ice method :eek:
 
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