Eyes suken in

DocZ said:
Thanks. That’s a very logical conclusion regarding the homemade gut loads

you mentioned “Or is the whole story of gutloading actually irrelevant or of minute importance and important is, to feed the feeders properly so that they become nutritionally valuable themselves? That seems to be close to true. But then gut-loading is really not as important...” I think this is where recommendations given earlier come in. The recommended fruits and vegetables are full of highly bioavailable nutrition. Most have good Calcium to phosphorus ratios, lack high oxalates that could effect Calcium absorption, and do not have high goitrogens that effect thyroid hormone production.

I was a little confused why it is called “gut-loading” at first. I agree that the bioavailability of the gut contents in an insect (mostly fruits and vegetables) seemed likely to be quite low to an insectivore

I view the recommended vegetables and plants as insect food. If the insect eats A nutritious, bioavailable diet, it’s tissues will have maximum nutritional content. I don’t care much about what they’re carrying around in their gut. Although it may be the initial digestive process in the gut of the insect has increased the digestibility for the chameleon as well
Click to expand...
My opinion is, as oresented aleeady
People comfuse gutloading with lroper feeders nutrition
 
Beman said:
1. Since 99% of the recommended info is to gutload feeders then that is what I recommend. You are the first leader in the hobby that I have heard say anything against this.
Click to expand...
I say it clearly
Chsmeleons can NOT digest it
So, it is a nonsense to focus on gutloading wirh someone that has zero nutritive value for the chameleon
It is better to form own logical opinion than parrott just what say other “leaders”...


Beman said:
2. So you are recommending giving Calcium with D3 every week? Because that is what they are doing with their supplement rotation. You would be the only person I have ever heard to recommend this.
Click to expand...

NO
Please use your reading comprehension properly thisis neitjer what Imsay nor ejat the OP says, please do not twist my words
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Beman said:
So now that you have slammed my feedback to the original poster how is this helpful? You did not assist with what to look for if the cham does have an RI. You did not do anything but tell me how wrong I was.... I would love to know how this helps?
Click to expand...

it helps you to provode correct and not wrong info
I am not playing political games neotjer K slammed you

i criticise info that is provided wrong way
I jabe nothing against you, do not say what is not true, i was objective and not personal in all my comments, i suggest you notmto be sensitive and just work with it as with fsir friendly feedback, not less and not more


Beman said:
1. Since 99% of the recommended info is to gutload feeders then that is what I recommend. You are the first leader in the hobby that I have heard say anything against this.

2. So you are recommending giving Calcium with D3 every week? Because that is what they are doing with their supplement rotation. You would be the only person I have ever heard to recommend this.

3. I gave them complete links to read and learn about the natural hydration cycle. I even showed them an image of my cage explaining it because they did not understand the gradients. I can not teach every aspect of care but only try to point them to places like the Chameleon academy by Bill Strand so that they can learn full details.

4. I did not say go get a fecal I said it is a good idea....

So now that you have slammed my feedback to the original poster how is this helpful? You did not assist with what to look for if the cham does have an RI. You did not do anything but tell me how wrong I was.... I would love to know how this helps?

Honestly the last thread you came in on and slammed the OP and the information they provided for review made them not return to the forum. They stopped posting. How does this allow us to help them if they feel that they can't post because someone was extremely harsh with them. In the USA petstores sell chameleons and they are known for giving out the wrong information. So when people find us they are doing things incorrectly so we GENTLY provide feedback and explain that they were told to buy the wrong items and how to fix it. We do not take a harsh hard approach with people here because then they leave and then the chameleon is the one that pays for it when it dies.
Click to expand...

I will not candy coat my messages
I do not know about any policy rhat sounds same as you say to be official in CF
My english inowledge is not enough to write candy coated messages
I am against the logic
Because petstores provide wrong info, we Are authorized to hive rhem also less wrong but still wrong info
If you jave anytjing against my style, ask the CF to mure me
 
Last edited by a moderator:
kinyonga said:
Or is the whole story of gutloading actually irrelevant or of minute importance and important is, to feed the feeders properly so that they become nutritionally valuable themselves?" I agree that making the insects as nutritionally healthy/valuable themselves is whats important....but don't we have to also try to ensure that the chameleons get the nutrition that they lack because what we feed them is not what they get in the wild?
Click to expand...

yes I agree
But i disagree rhat the recommended gutload does compemsate anytjing, as itnis not digestanle for chameleons
In my humble opinion itnis simply a commonly acceoted BS
 
Beman said:
1. Since 99% of the recommended info is to gutload feeders then that is what I recommend. You are the first leader in the hobby that I have heard say anything against this.

2. So you are recommending giving Calcium with D3 every week? Because that is what they are doing with their supplement rotation. You would be the only person I have ever heard to recommend this.

3. I gave them complete links to read and learn about the natural hydration cycle. I even showed them an image of my cage explaining it because they did not understand the gradients. I can not teach every aspect of care but only try to point them to places like the Chameleon academy by Bill Strand so that they can learn full details.

4. I did not say go get a fecal I said it is a good idea....

So now that you have slammed my feedback to the original poster how is this helpful? You did not assist with what to look for if the cham does have an RI. You did not do anything but tell me how wrong I was.... I would love to know how this helps?

Honestly the last thread you came in on and slammed the OP and the information they provided for review made them not return to the forum. They stopped posting. How does this allow us to help them if they feel that they can't post because someone was extremely harsh with them. In the USA petstores sell chameleons and they are known for giving out the wrong information. So when people find us they are doing things incorrectly so we GENTLY provide feedback and explain that they were told to buy the wrong items and how to fix it. We do not take a harsh hard approach with people here because then they leave and then the chameleon is the one that pays for it when it dies.
Click to expand...

i am not your enemy
But if you write info rhat is wrong IMHO I feel right to correct it
I would expect more maturity and not such sensitivity
if I offemded you, it was unintentional and I spologize

but read my comments, they sre focused not on you as persons just on the Facts
 
PetNcs said:
I will not candy coat my messages
I do not know about any policy rhat sounds same as you say to be official in CF
My english inowledge is not enough to write candy coated messages
I am against the logic
Because petstores provide wrong info, we Are authorized to hive rhem also less wrong but still wrong info
If you jave anytjing against my style, ask the CF to mure me
Click to expand...
PetNcs said:
i am not your enemy
But if you write info rhat is wrong IMHO I feel right to correct it
I would expect more maturity and not such sensitivity
if I offemded you, it was unintentional and I spologize

but read my comments, they sre focused not on you as persons just on the Facts
Click to expand...
Just because you are Petr Necas does not give you the right to be rude to people. I am very well aware who you are in the community. It is so frustrating to me that you treat people here this way when I have looked up to you and your work so much. How you approach people matters. While you may not feel that you came off rude and abrasive it did. I do not need a candy coated message. To tell someone that they are giving incorrect feedback is one thing... How you tell them and teach them matters. If you want people to be open to your ways... Then maybe try a different approach.
 
Beman said:
Just because you are Petr Necas does not give you the right to be rude to people. I am very well aware who you are in the community. It is so frustrating to me that you treat people here this way when I have looked up to you and your work so much. How you approach people matters. While you may not feel that you came off rude and abrasive it did. I do not need a candy coated message. To tell someone that they are giving incorrect feedback is one thing... How you tell them and teach them matters. If you want people to be open to your ways... Then maybe try a different approach.
Click to expand...
English is nit my mothers tongue
I am not harsh
I am just straight
i will not candy cost my messages because then ylu will hsrdly understand whag ai about to say
It is everyones rigjt to be open to feedback or to play the funny game so typical for one of the countries “omg I was offended”...

PetNcs said:
English is nit my mothers tongue
I am not harsh
I am just straight
i will not candy cost my messages because then ylu will hsrdly understand whag ai about to say
It is everyones rigjt to be open to feedback or to play the funny game so typical for one of the countries “omg I was offended”...
Click to expand...

show Me where I was rude
I will gladly apologize if rhat is rhe case
Mostly people just csn. Ot take a straighr fieward info as is and rey tk twist it to be rude, it is. It meant like that

if you would speak my language, it would take you decades to formullate your thoughts correctly...
 
IMG_20200830_201451.jpg IMG_20200830_201502.jpg I'm aware this is still small (cage is still on its way) but I tried to fix it! Any input?
 
DocZ said:
Although it may be the initial digestive process in the gut of the insect has increased the digestibility for the chameleon as well
Click to expand...

good thought, so far, noone demonstrated any feasible resesrch or even indocation of that this might be true
I am also a bit hesitant to accept that an animal would “calculate” with some specific half-digested gut content of a feeder, especially when chameleons are knowen tl be very opportuuistic predators and do not really control the composition of their food.
until seriois resesrch is done or at least any god imdication of this logic will be provided, I suggest not to consider this idea for more than a valid andfsir speculation
 
Highway61 said:
Where is the science and research to back this up? That is your own personal proclamation, that all gutloads are BS unless it's just bee pollen?
Click to expand...

yes
If you want
Take it like this :)
I jave written enougj about it and working on supplementation researxh for many years

but if you want to consider an inlogical feeding of jndigestable dtuff rather than consider the wvidence of feeding on pollinatirs
Itnis your choice
No need tk attack me
 
KamaKamaChameleon! said:
Thank you :) His basking spot stays at 85.8 f
Click to expand...
Your welcome. Where are you pulling that temp from, off of the branch below it? Or are you using a temp gun? Make sure you put your hand in under the lamp on the screen if it is hot to you then it has the potential to cause a thermal burn. While we might achieve an accurate temp we have to remember their casque. Your boy happens to have one that stands quite high. So my personal preference for him would be to lift that lamp up off the screen 3-4 inches to ensure that he is not getting too close. 80-85 at basking. It does not need to be on the hot end :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

C
PLEASE HELP! Eyes closed. Crusted and already saw a vet!
Replies
16
Views
404
ERKleRose
ERKleRose
R
Eye gunk, retained shed or discharge?
Replies
4
Views
102
Beman
Beman
C
Panther chameleon eye issue
Replies
3
Views
493
SteveH
SteveH
Kaylee1
Do his eyes look sunken in?
Replies
5
Views
438
Beman
Beman
B
Veiled Chameleon Closed Eye and rubbing on branches
Replies
8
Views
414
MissSkittles
MissSkittles
Back
Top Bottom