Female Panther (not well) Lethargic, weird bubble in side...

G

GreathouseFarm

New Member
I have 6 panthers ranging from tiny to full grown. This girl seemed fine the other day so I put a male in with her. Took him out the next morning. Later that day I noticed her being lethargic and eyes slightly sunken in. (The last time I saw this look on a girls face she was dead the next morning - I had gotten her the day before) So needless to say I am very concerned because this girl was the one that I was given to replace the one that passed. That was about 2 months ago. So I gave her a long shower and some electrolytes. I have been doing extra hydration routine on her. I noticed that she has a bubble sort of thing on one side. Right in the center of her left side. Like air... it's soft and I was basically able to move it and then I noticed it filled and went down with her breathing. Very strange.

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Female Ambilobe Panther - full grown. How long has it been in your care? 2 mod ~
Handling - Daily
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? Large Crickets/Supers
What amount? 3-5 a day What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? Fruits and Veggies or Gutload Powder
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? Repashy SuperCal (lightly every time)
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? Hand Spray at least 5 times a day if not more till cage is dripping. Yes she drinks.
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings.
Last feces was wet and hard to see exactly because it dripped on all the plants as it went down. Before that normal.
Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? Not that I know of.
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. I wish

Cage Info:
Cage Type - DIY screen cage - What are the dimensions? 24x16x16
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? She gets real sun for 2 hours a day. Basking bulb is a 100w zoo med as its been cold.
Temperature - What temp range have you created 75-95(cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? 68 (been having trouble here) How do you measure these temps? Digital Thermometer.
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? 65% ~ hygrometer.
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? No
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? 3 feet up.
Location - Where are you geographically located? Southern Ca close to water.

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
 
how long has she been in your care? Is that 2 months? Could you post a pic of her? What was the purpose of putting her in with the male? to breed? Did you watch them the whole time they were together?
 
Yes it's been about 2 mos. Yes to breed ;) Like I said she had been doing well, eating and was seeming receptive. This bubble goes up and down when she breaths when I put pressure on the other side. Almost like a hold in her lung or something.
 
Alls I am thinking is the male could have injured in her in some way. how did your other female die?
 
I don't see any injury showing and I did not see anything aggressive from him. The other female passed so quickly we never found out why. I literally brought her home one day and she was fine she ate and the next morning I could tell she was going down hill fast. Here is a video I was able to post on FB. http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=295366860516213&notif_t=video_processed

Note both of these girls came from the same person and their history and age is undocumented or unverifiable. I was told this one was supposed to be gravid when I got her but she never laid any eggs. Which was why I went ahead with this mating. Do you think stress could cause this? Have you ever seen a bubble like this? I thank you so much for all your help!
 
I have never seen anything like this but it doesnt look good, my recommendation would be to take her to the vet as soon as possible
 
I think she looks like she is gravid. She looks big. What did you provide for a laying bin for her? Did she ever attmept to lay? Not sure about the "bubble" At first I thought it was the outline of an egg. how long have you had her and how long has she looked this fat?
 
i agree with Carol, she looks most definitely gravid. and i would also take her to the vet for that bump as soon as possible.

i would also try to syringe her some water, maybe laced with some calcium if you can

and that bump inflated and deflated as if it were her lung
 
yes vet asap... but I don't feel any eggs and she has not acted like she wanted to lay, so I never put her in the lay bin. She has been that size since I got her two mos ago. The bubble is soft and now is starting to form on her other side.
 
she just look quite large to me. I would get her to vet tomorrow and they can xray her for eggs. You should always keep a laying bin in their cage at all times, that way if they need to lay it is there.
 
A hernia sounds like a good suspicion. I was never told by other breeders to keep the lay bin in there. I use a rather large tub so I'd have to do something smaller but if it is eggs would it be too late? She was never on the bottom digging around like my other female did.

I do have just about anything you can think of on hand. Pancur, Albon, Reptiad, Electrolytes, acidopholiz +, but nothing really seems to fit the bill here other than the dehydration. Which like I said all the other chams are fine and they get the same treatment.

They do have 5.0's but I put them in the sun most days too.

I'm afraid that she may have renal failure that may have been in motion before I got her. Or she is much older than I was told. I am new to Chams but I am old to animals. I hope i can save her.
 
Do you have something she can access and dig at in the bottom of the cage?

Her eyes do look a bit sunken in the pictures, but it could be the angle....

Regardless of anything else, I would suggest upping the hydration a bit...mist one or two more times a day. It can't hurt and it could do a world of good.
 
well gosh I hope you can save her. She just has that shape and roundness of other chameleons I have seen posted on here that are gravid. It seems though, they usually stop eating, or decrease in appetite and do usually go to the bottom of the cage looking for a place to lay. It is just good practice to keep the bin in there at all times when they get to 5 months or so. There is never any guessing then and if they need to to lay, they have a place to do so. Please let us know the outcome., good or bad. Maybe we can all learn something from her condition. Good luck to you!
 
Well she made it through the night. Yes she has been getting long showers since I first noticed her eyes were sunken in. I have added a small lay box to the bottom of her cage. It's only a couple of inches deep so I hope it will at least be enough for her to show me that she wants to lay. But I really fear that her kidneys are shutting down. From what I have read if they are getting plenty of water but still get dehydrated that is a sign. As well as the kidneys swelling making it hard for them to pass eggs which could explain the hernias or whatever they are. Being that when you buy an animal they don't come with a certified birth certificate or tattoo :) I am afraid I was lied to about her age. I've also heard different things about how long the females live. I hope I can get to the vet today. I have just gone back to school and just finished moving. When it rains it pours. Thank you guys! I will let you know.
 
Does anyone have any ideas of what else I might try? Turns out my herp vet went on vacation and his replacement they said is not familiar with exotics. Honestly I trust the opinions of people who actually keep Chams over most vets. She is hanging on but very weak. Pooped a tiny bit of orange slime today. She drinks / showers and I have been giving her electrolytes but her eyes are more sunken in now. No desire to use the lay box and of course I don't feel anything when I palpate her. I've never seen a cham with parasite problems, could this cause these symptoms? I know the reptaid would dry her out but I do have panacur and at this point I'm willing to try anything. But unfortunately I still suspect renal failure over all else which makes me so mad. Why would a "1yr." old cham be dying of renal failure.
 
She has passed. Just when I was on the phone with another vet. I will let you guys know the results of the visual necropsy if anyones interested.
 
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