Florida Wild Female Veiled Chameleon and Poll

[Umbra]

This is an image from a recent trip, Found this female hanging out in a Brazilian Pepper Tree, her colors were truly stunning!

I am legally obligated to disclose that I did not re-release a non-native species as that would be a violation of Florida law. While confining a wild animal to captivity is morally questionable, at least she will avoid the army of FWC agents that will soon come to eradicate the population. While some have said the FWC doesn't care much about them as they're not as harmful as other invasives, history tells a different story; their thoroughness in eradication is impressive, but sad to see. In my opinion, the collection of these wild populations is the best way to keep them away from the cold shovel of death, preserve their genetics, and reduce pressure on the amazing native species we are losing here in my great state. What are your opinions on this conundrum? I know this is a very controversial topic for some, so any and all civil discourse is welcome!

 

[AmazingYocool]

very cool! I'll be moving to florida this upcoming summer, im excited to see them in the wild

 

[Umbra]

very cool! I'll be moving to florida this upcoming summer, im excited to see them in the wild

Happy hunting!

 

[Beman]

My input for what it is worth... It is not right or wrong in my opinion. It comes down to the fact that wild caught chams can have an extremely hard time acclimating to captivity and even in the minimum size cage of a 2x2x4 ft they struggle due to the size. Most also that are taken do not get proper medical care. they can have parasites, respiratory issues, etc. Then you take one that is wild and shove it in a cage which increases its stress and that can compromise their immune system further.

I have a hard time with this topic for the simple fact that people do this without regard to what this does to the animal. Then there are those that sell them off like they are captive bred never getting them medical attention. Or they put them into horrible conditions to breed them. I think it is cruel to do this to an animal that is used to having unlimited space. Especially when there are so many Veiled chameleons needing homes from pet stores. To ads on craigslist and other places like it because they are unwanted.

 

[MissSkittles]

I doubt that you’ll care much for my opinion. Do keep in mind I am not attacking you, your beliefs or anyone else’s…just giving my point of view as you asked for.
I think that the wild veileds should be left alone. I already have told of my guy Lucky, who breaks my heart with his depression at being in a cage. I met someone who’s boyfriend found and took home a wild gravid female and from what she told me, he was not providing for her uvb or supplement needs, nor was he going to spend anything to take her to a vet for suspected egg binding. I have to assume his thinking is it was a free animal and is just a lizard so why bother. Then there’s the very nice couple who’s last veiled lived in the right size enclosure, but all fake plants and coil uvb. I tried to sweetly let them know about the uvb and they were stuck in their belief that it was fine. That guy died of a big growth on his face and they too were later given a wild caught male veiled. They put him in the same enclosure and when he isn’t digging thru the coco coir on his floor (probably looking for a way to escape), he’s hugging his coil uvb. These animals deserve better, and since we humans suck at giving it to them, they should be left alone. Just because we see them, does not mean we need to take them home. The tales of the poor turtles and a protected gopher tortoise that I’ve ended up with from idiots who took them from the wild are scattered around the forum. If whomever is not prepared, willing and able to provide for all of the animals needs properly, they should not take them home. It’s a case of just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.
FWC should be quite busy with their killing of wild and pet snakes to bother with the harmless chameleons. Plus, if the developers continue at the current rate of developing Florida wild lands into luxury condos, the majority of wildlife, both native and exotic will eventually die out.

 

[GrannyK]

My thoughts on this could take days to explain but long story short, I am NOT for taking animals out of their natural environment for fun. If numbers are threatened by extinction I thinks yes preservation of species is important. With them being invasive if they are no threat to the environment, leave them be, if they are in danger of being captured and killed due to their invasive population with no environmental hazard I am for protecting them, even if it means taking them from the wild. They did not ask to be there and they are not hurting anything so why bother them right. I know it’s a controversial topic but I would rather save the animal than kill it for no reason if it’s not harmful.
Now if you’re talking about the mighty pythons in the Everglades…. I have a different view I’m a New Yorker, terrified of snakes for no good reason and I want to come down and hunt those suckers so bad. I by no means want them to die but they are potentially a huge species and can do a great deal of damage to the environment and humans.
Well that’s the short story to the long story but I think you get the jist.
My opinion is it’s not right but maybe not wrong.

 

[Umbra]

I doubt that you’ll care much for my opinion. Do keep in mind I am not attacking you, your beliefs or anyone else’s…just giving my point of view as you asked for.
I think that the wild veileds should be left alone. I already have told of my guy Lucky, who breaks my heart with his depression at being in a cage. I met someone who’s boyfriend found and took home a wild gravid female and from what she told me, he was not providing for her uvb or supplement needs, nor was he going to spend anything to take her to a vet for suspected egg binding. I have to assume his thinking is it was a free animal and is just a lizard so why bother. Then there’s the very nice couple who’s last veiled lived in the right size enclosure, but all fake plants and coil uvb. I tried to sweetly let them know about the uvb and they were stuck in their belief that it was fine. That guy died of a big growth on his face and they too were later given a wild caught male veiled. They put him in the same enclosure and when he isn’t digging thru the coco coir on his floor (probably looking for a way to escape), he’s hugging his coil uvb. These animals deserve better, and since we humans suck at giving it to them, they should be left alone. Just because we see them, does not mean we need to take them home. The tales of the poor turtles and a protected gopher tortoise that I’ve ended up with from idiots who took them from the wild are scattered around the forum. If whomever is not prepared, willing and able to provide for all of the animals needs properly, they should not take them home. It’s a case of just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.
FWC should be quite busy with their killing of wild and pet snakes to bother with the harmless chameleons. Plus, if the developers continue at the current rate of developing Florida wild lands into luxury condos, the majority of wildlife, both native and exotic will eventually die out.

Thank you for your input, and no worries, I made this post specifically so everyone can share their views on it. I absolutely care to hear all sides weighing in ! I'm inclined to agree with what you've said, especially with all the examples you have mentioned. Regarding FWC's invasive species actions, they primarily are focusing on the members of the prohibited species list, but they do wipe out populations (port charlotte, Tampa, Orlando, some homestead populations, etc...). Now, its not nearly as often as the iguana and tegu operations, but it definitely happens a few times a year. I believe that their efforts will only get stronger, especially because the amount of firefights between herpers and illicit breeders is only increasing (not just a few warning shots, full AR mags are getting dumped at people, info from a reliable source). Its only a matter of time before someone gets pin-cushioned and makes national news, and that'll force FWC to act. I'm sure DeSantis will also leverage the python invasion for reelection, since its a popular topic with the general public, and that'll likely add to the removal efforts. My heart wishes you are wrong about the development, but my brain knows the truth it brings tears to my eyes thinking of all the amazing wildland that I have seen completely bulldozed. Something needs to change

 

[Umbra]

My thoughts on this could take days to explain but long story short, I am NOT for taking animals out of their natural environment for fun. If numbers are threatened by extinction I thinks yes preservation of species is important. With them being invasive if they are no threat to the environment, leave them be, if they are in danger of being captured and killed due to their invasive population with no environmental hazard I am for protecting them, even if it means taking them from the wild. They did not ask to be there and they are not hurting anything so why bother them right. I know it’s a controversial topic but I would rather save the animal than kill it for no reason if it’s not harmful.
Now if you’re talking about the mighty pythons in the Everglades…. I have a different view I’m a New Yorker, terrified of snakes for no good reason and I want to come down and hunt those suckers so bad. I by no means want them to die but they are potentially a huge species and can do a great deal of damage to the environment and humans.
Well that’s the short story to the long story but I think you get the jist.
My opinion is it’s not right but maybe not wrong.

Generally, any invasive will compete against native species for food, habitat, etc. so there is a strain put on the carrying capacity of native ecosystems when invasives are present. While a bit of strain here and there is manageable (some invasives have found a place in the food chain and integrated nicely over time, like brown anoles), some larger species push the carrying capacity to its limits. A perfect example is the Burmese pythons you mentioned, they have eaten 90-94% of all mammals in the Everglades. The only good berm' in the Glades is a dead one imo, but i'm all for exporting them to more northern states where they can't survive outside. The damage they have done cannot be put into words, seeing a wetlands completely devoid of mammals is.... very unsettling. THEYRE EATING THE DAMN DEER. A SNAKE. EATING. DEER. I haven't seen a deer in the everglades for several years now, very concerning stuff! Come down and hunt em with me, we need all the help we can get! Thank you for taking the time to share your view!

 

[Umbra]

My input for what it is worth... It is not right or wrong in my opinion. It comes down to the fact that wild caught chams can have an extremely hard time acclimating to captivity and even in the minimum size cage of a 2x2x4 ft they struggle due to the size. Most also that are taken do not get proper medical care. they can have parasites, respiratory issues, etc. Then you take one that is wild and shove it in a cage which increases its stress and that can compromise their immune system further.

I have a hard time with this topic for the simple fact that people do this without regard to what this does to the animal. Then there are those that sell them off like they are captive bred never getting them medical attention. Or they put them into horrible conditions to breed them. I think it is cruel to do this to an animal that is used to having unlimited space. Especially when there are so many Veiled chameleons needing homes from pet stores. To ads on craigslist and other places like it because they are unwanted.

I completely agree, disregarding the health of an animal is never ok, and I know chameleons especially have historically been dumped often due to the difficulty of caring for them. Similar to what you said regarding the sale of WC's, one angle I think about a lot regarding the pet trade is the sheer irresponsibility of pet shop owners and big chains pushing chameleons to uninformed customers with little instruction and info (looking at you, PetCo and Petsmart ). Every time I see the sickly baby veileds there, I want to break the glass and run away with them. Its abhorrent how shit they treat them. Thank you for the well-thought out response!

 

[GrannyK]

Generally, any invasive will compete against native species for food, habitat, etc. so there is a strain put on the carrying capacity of native ecosystems when invasives are present. While a bit of strain here and there is manageable (some invasives have found a place in the food chain and integrated nicely over time, like brown anoles), some larger species push the carrying capacity to its limits. A perfect example is the Burmese pythons you mentioned, they have eaten 90-94% of all mammals in the Everglades. The only good berm' in the Glades is a dead one imo, but i'm all for exporting them to more northern states where they can't survive outside. The damage they have done cannot be put into words, seeing a wetlands completely devoid of mammals is.... very unsettling. THEYRE EATING THE DAMN DEER. A SNAKE. EATING. DEER. I haven't seen a deer in the everglades for several years now, very concerning stuff! Come down and hunt em with me, we need all the help we can get! Thank you for taking the time to share your view!

You said it well about the invasive species, they all take a toll somehow. It’s very sad the deer have disappeared And YES!! If I ever make it down there to Fl again I will get in touch and go snake hunting. It would be a great adventure. In the mean time send em up lol our bitter winters will freeze those suckers good.

 

[BleuSaphir]

They don’t belong in Florida. So taking one out feral Florida isn’t my concern.

 

[Umbra]

You said it well about the invasive species, they all take a toll somehow. It’s very sad the deer have disappeared And YES!! If I ever make it down there to Fl again I will get in touch and go snake hunting. It would be a great adventure. In the mean time send em up lol our bitter winters will freeze those suckers good.

Hope to take ya, love showing people how beautiful the Everglades are! I will warn you though, its not easy! Lots of late night walkin' and 'skeeter smackin', and they do a good job of sitting unmoving in thick brush 90% of the day, it takes a good eye and a methodical search to find them, but it pays off when you find a massive nope rope or get to see all our other native herps!

 

[janjan20]

This is an image from a recent trip, Found this female hanging out in a Brazilian Pepper Tree, her colors were truly stunning! View attachment 359140
I am legally obligated to disclose that I did not re-release a non-native species as that would be a violation of Florida law. While confining a wild animal to captivity is morally questionable, at least she will avoid the army of FWC agents that will soon come to eradicate the population. While some have said the FWC doesn't care much about them as they're not as harmful as other invasives, history tells a different story; their thoroughness in eradication is impressive, but sad to see. In my opinion, the collection of these wild populations is the best way to keep them away from the cold shovel of death, preserve their genetics, and reduce pressure on the amazing native species we are losing here in my great state. What are your opinions on this conundrum? I know this is a very controversial topic for some, so any and all civil discourse is welcome!

I have experience with keeping a chameleon in my backyard and I was very inexperienced. Unfortunately, because of my lack of knowledge he was only in my care about 6 months. I hope I don’t have to make that choice again, I may end up pretending I didn’t see it at all. (Don’t judge me! ).
Not 100% sure but this female you caught does look gravid. I would prepare for babies if you still have her.

 

[Umbra]

I have experience with keeping a chameleon in my backyard and I was very inexperienced. Unfortunately, because of my lack of knowledge he was only in my care about 6 months. I hope I don’t have to make that choice again, I may end up pretending I didn’t see it at all. (Don’t judge me! ).
Not 100% sure but this female you caught does look gravid. I would prepare for babies if you still have her.

I have experience keeping reptiles, and I have always wanted to keep a chameleon, so I’ve researched it in the past, but I’ve definitely expanded my knowledge in the past week! I’m sorry that your chameleon didn’t make it, and I hope you have had better experiences, definitely best to play it safe! I set up her lay box using washed play sand, but I’m estimating I still got roughly 30 days before she lays, as she was found with a mate. She has all the right colorations, and displays gravid colors when presented with the male. Trying to give her a lot of privacy and places to hide bc she’s still nervous around me and I don’t want to stress her out.