Frogs & chameleons???

[QuioteCham]

I almost didnt believe you until I actually saw the pics of the turtles and the cham together. whats even stranger: they all looked perfectly happy. Good job. You've shocked the world, or at least the cham forum world.

 

[nightcrawler]

I like the sperm plug on the vine.

 

[OldSkoolxReasons]

What are teh dimensions of that AQUArium? It doesn't even look to be 3 feet high, not to mention that there are wayyyy to many adult turtles for such a small enclosure. I don't even keep that many turtles in a 5'x5' fish pond. I can guarantee you one thing, the panther would gladly welcome a change f scenery into a cage that is taller, being an arboreal lizard, with some real plants and no turtles to bite at him and no water to potentially drown in if he ever falls. The basic care information are just guidelines to help us keep our chameleons as healthy and content as possible. There are obviously exceptions but I do not see this as being a good idea by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe with a tokay gecko or day gecko but the both need way more plants than that also. I just would never risk my precious panther chameleon ending up as turtle food. I have seen my turtles attack and kill birds that are flopping around in the pond before I could get there to save them. Of course my turtles are more aggressive species than red eared sliders but even they can inflict some damage and a cham can't do anything to a turtle with a shell. Please just consider getting a taller screen cage for the panther and I promise you will be making him happy.


Justin

 

[nightcrawler]

Also since no one is talking about the turtles requirements, there is not enough water in there for them. They look like 5''-8'' guys, and generally you need 10 gallons of water per inch per turtle. Let them swim, they love to swim.

 

[enigmacell]

Also since no one is talking about the turtles requirements, there is not enough water in there for them. They look like 5''-8'' guys, and generally you need 10 gallons of water per inch per turtle. Let them swim, they love to swim.

I've tried so hard to give the turtles the right environment. I've had them in a heated pond in a shed I built just for them but it was costing mega bucks to keep it heated properly. I had them in an aquarium about 2' high but it was next to impossible to created a good land area for them. The aquarium they are in now is 5' x 2' x 20". I would like to have them in about 3" more water but this was the best I could find. They swim as much as they did in the 2' high tank. They tend to hover around the bottom anyway.

As for the lights in the tank the red one is now a blue night one and I just have the ceramic on inside because the odd splash of water doesn't interfere with it. There are also some live plants now which I'm trying to get to spread.

I love animals and if I thought any of them were stressed I would set up an enclosure for them. I know my cham is going to get a bit bigger than what he is now and I am looking for a similar tank but higher and with a higher water capability. I am also looking at the best way of replacing one of the glass doors with mesh or might put mesh on both sides.

Anyway I've had the turtles for years after having this tank for a few months I thought it was such a waste having all that height with nothing in it. I was going to put anoles in it but when I saw the chams in the pet shop change colours as the shop got more busy (probably from stress) I was blown away by them. I studied clips from youtube and noticed how they stayed in the branches rather than the ground and thought it should in theory work. Well a year later as much as it does look all wrong everyone seems happy and I still sit for hours looking at the tank.

 

[ciafardo 4]

No all you have done is try hard to cram as many animals as can in a fish tank what the cat wouldn't fit? GET YOUR HEAD OUTTA YOUR ASS PLEASE

 

[jojackson]

wayyyy to many adult turtles for such a small enclosure. I don't even keep that many turtles in a 5'x5' fish pond. I can guarantee you one thing, the panther would gladly welcome a change f scenery into a cage that is taller, being an arboreal lizard, with some real plants and no turtles to bite at him and no water to potentially drown in if he ever falls.

My own thoughts exactly. It might 'work' for you, it certainly dosent work for its unfortunate occupants. Id bet the frogs arnt happy either. It wont last, and if you insist on this setup indefinately, I fear your animals wont either.
Please spend a weekend off and go check out some garage sales or yard sales, Im sure you'll find something much more suitable for each of your species relatively cheaply.
You have some amazing animals and they all deserve better conditions.

 

[drewtt]

they all looked perfectly happy. Good job.

How can you tell that they're all perfectly happy? I'm assuming that it's not from the smiles on their faces. Please, share your secrets. . .

Drew

 

[Lizardlover]

Not to mention the only live plant he does have is toxic. Please, give your animals what they deserve.

 

[enigmacell]

How can you tell that they're all perfectly happy? I'm assuming that it's not from the smiles on their faces. Please, share your secrets. . .

Drew

Just look at the smiles on the frogs. Ha ha I'm kidding. I'm just assuming they are happy since they are all good grubbers and are always active. One of the female turtles lays eggs sometimes which is a sign of a stress free environment. I've seen some enclosures on this site and all they consist of is a small cage with a couple of vines in them with a few plants - hardly interesting for the chams. I bet a lot of peoples chams just sit in one corner of the setup all day until its feeding time?

Of course there should be more height to climb and more water to swim. Bigger is always better. But realistically no ones setup is big enough. We can only give our pets a snippet of their natural environment.

As for the only plant being toxic it is a pothos (devils ivy) which most people seem to recommend and like I've said before I have added a lot of plants since the picture was taken.

 

[trdlabs]

Just look at the smiles on the frogs. Ha ha I'm kidding. I'm just assuming they are happy since they are all good grubbers and are always active. One of the female turtles lays eggs sometimes which is a sign of a stress free environment. I've seen some enclosures on this site and all they consist of is a small cage with a couple of vines in them with a few plants - hardly interesting for the chams. I bet a lot of peoples chams just sit in one corner of the setup all day until its feeding time?

Of course there should be more height to climb and more water to swim. Bigger is always better. But realistically no ones setup is big enough. We can only give our pets a snippet of their natural environment.

As for the only plant being toxic it is a pothos (devils ivy) which most people seem to recommend and like I've said before I have added a lot of plants since the picture was taken.

Your going to get flamed again! You should have left well enough alone and not responded back. No matter what you say you will still be in the wrong. To many people think they know everything about everything. Don't share to much unless you want to get flamed. I used to own a saltwater company and you would be surprised on how many people thought they knew it all and the sh*t they pulled out there asses to impress other's. You could be a pro breeder and people would still tell you how to do it or what you should be doing. WATCH, I AM GOING TO GET FLAMED FOR WRITING THIS!

 

[Pumpkinface]

i'm not gonna yell at you about your pets being stressed or your setup. i'm worried about your firehazard and possible drowned and/or eaten cham yes, but i have to admit, it does look cool. as far as the cham's stress over the turtles, that depends on the cham's personality. while left to roam the apartment, my veiled sometimes wanders into the room where my turtles are to climb up and watch them swim around. some chams love to be hidden and watch other creatures (or cars) move about. i do feel bad for chams that just sit in a cage all day with nothing to watch but us. when i see your setup, it reminds me of a smaller version of a setup they'd have at a zoo reptile house. i don't see that setup working for much longer as the turtles and cham grow. i don't think it's awful like a lot of others do, but its very high risk! those turtles can easily kill that cham if it hits the water. i've had turtles that grew up together accidently kill each other even when they had enough room

 

[jojackson]

....sometimes which is a sign of a stress free environment

For how long mate? Are you expecting anything to actually grow?

You could be a pro breeder and people would still tell you how to do it or what you should be doing.

Trdlabs,
Your right enough there, but clearly Enigma is not a 'pro-breeder' Of turtles, frogs or chams.
It IS poorly thought out husbandry regardless who thinks so or not, unfortunately the animals wont tell him untill disease sets in.
A few responses in this thread were rude, hostile an uninspireing, but still generally right on the money.
Nobody is an 'expert', you dont stop learning, but some are a damn sight closer than others.
There is no 'one right way' to do things, but there are a hell of alot of wrong ways, and Enigma's setup is one of those, and apparently obviously so to anyone who has kept reptiles more than 5 minutes. It's a disaster-in-waiting! I could bullet list potential
issues and it would seem extensive, but there dosent seem much point.
By all means be supportive, but realise that support and encouraging ignorance are two different things.

Like I said, everyone is learning, but as soon as you think you know best, you stop learning. Enigma seems to have decided to stop learning, Though im not surprised
at his/her indignant attitude after some responses here.

 

[Pumpkinface]

A few responses in this thread were rude, hostile an uninspireing, but still generally right on the money.

very well said, jo

 

[nightcrawler]

it reminds me of a smaller version of a setup they'd have at a zoo reptile house.(

This would be the Mellers at the shedd?

If you intend to do this, then you should reall extend the top of the enclosure so the cham has more then one-one and a half feet to venture up.

If you want to make the turtle talk better you can always build an outside dock for the turtles. If you fill up the water close to the top, but not high enough so they can climb out, you can insert a rap that leads to the side of the tank with an enclosed dock. This will provide a good amount of swimming room, and depending on how big you make the dock, ample land area. If you really want to make it good you can have a basking area, and even a egg laying area.

 

[trdlabs]

....sometimes which is a sign of a stress free environment

For how long mate? Are you expecting anything to actually grow?

You could be a pro breeder and people would still tell you how to do it or what you should be doing.

Trdlabs,
Your right enough there, but clearly Enigma is not a 'pro-breeder' Of turtles, frogs or chams.
It IS poorly thought out husbandry regardless who thinks so or not, unfortunately the animals wont tell him untill disease sets in.
A few responses in this thread were rude, hostile an uninspireing, but still generally right on the money.
Nobody is an 'expert', you dont stop learning, but some are a damn sight closer than others.
There is no 'one right way' to do things, but there are a hell of alot of wrong ways, and Enigma's setup is one of those, and apparently obviously so to anyone who has kept reptiles more than 5 minutes. It's a disaster-in-waiting! I could bullet list potential
issues and it would seem extensive, but there dosent seem much point.
By all means be supportive, but realise that support and encouraging ignorance are two different things.

Like I said, everyone is learning, but as soon as you think you know best, you stop learning. Enigma seems to have decided to stop learning, Though im not surprised
at his/her indignant attitude after some responses here.

Thankyou for not flaming me. I thought some people were a little rude. I don't agree with his or her setup, but that is on them. We can only take care of are own animals and hope we are doing it well enough.