Fungal Infection & Medicine Reaction

[zlew]

Hey all, I've been treating Treecko for a fungal skin infection and he was doing much better until today. The vet gave me chlorhexidine for me to dilute and use to clean it out, and afterwards she said to put any jock itch antifungal cream thinly on it. Today while I was cleaning some of his skin started to peel off kind of like a shed, so I stopped, and now he's asleep and the area is drastically different from the rest of his body. I'm including photos of normal sleeping colors, pre-treatment infection, and pics from today. I sent all of these to the vet, but won't get a response until tomorrow. What do you guys think? I have been doing the treatment for a few days now, and this is the first of any kind of bad reaction besides throwing hissy fits.

Thanks,
~Z

 

[zlew]

From left to right: Pre treatment, normal sleeping, then three pics from today

 

[zlew]

Bump! Anyone?

 

[Carlton]

Hey all, I've been treating Treecko for a fungal skin infection and he was doing much better until today. The vet gave me chlorhexidine for me to dilute and use to clean it out, and afterwards she said to put any jock itch antifungal cream thinly on it. Today while I was cleaning some of his skin started to peel off kind of like a shed, so I stopped, and now he's asleep and the area is drastically different from the rest of his body. I'm including photos of normal sleeping colors, pre-treatment infection, and pics from today. I sent all of these to the vet, but won't get a response until tomorrow. What do you guys think? I have been doing the treatment for a few days now, and this is the first of any kind of bad reaction besides throwing hissy fits.

Thanks,
~Z

If the damaged tissue has died it will peel off eventually, so maybe this was to be expected. But, the new healthy tissue underneath the old would be pink, not dark. What did the vet do to diagnose this as a fungal infection? The reason I ask is that this area on the back is a very common site for a thermal burn. Burned tissue will eventually peel away as well. I haven't had to treat a fungal infection in a cham so I can't help other than suggest ideas. I don't think either of the topicals would cause damage on their own (but vets, please chime in!)

 

[jajeanpierre]

I treated a bacterial infection with diluted chlorhexidine among other things. It irritated his skin on underside of his hind leg and the skin responded by thickening and causing other problems.

Why does the vet think it is fungal? I think most skin infections in chameleons are bacterial in nature. One of my wild caught quads developed a bacterial skin infection all over his body. To me, it looked like spots of black mold, but there was no fungal infection when the vet looked at it under the microscope.

 

[carol5208]

The only way to see if it is fungual I believe is to do a skin scraping and do a culture. I am not sure about using the Jock itch creme on it. My vet had me use the chlorahexadine also and then silver sulfadiazine. It cleared it up but it came back many months later. I am actually dealing with it now, but it is just two very tiny spots. This last time around I was given Itraconazole which is an oral anti fungual. It seemed to be helping, but I am out of town currently and did not want my family trying to mess with the meds while I was gone. I will continue when I get back.

 

[zlew]

She took a scraping and I think she looked at it under a microscope. The jock itch cream is Clotrimazole, just run of the mill antifungal cream. I am having silvadene sent over from the House of Chameleons, and I will probably start using it instead of the clotrimazole. I had thought it was a burn at first too but she took one look at it and immediately saw infection. Would a burn get rid of some of his spikes? Could a fungal infection do that?

 

[carol5208]

I thought they had to do a process to the skin sample to see if it will grow fungus. I did not know it could be viewed under a scope. My sample was sent out and it took several days to find out it was a fungus. Maybe certain types can be seen under a scope, I don't know.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I thought they had to do a process to the skin sample to see if it will grow fungus. I did not know it could be viewed under a scope. My sample was sent out and it took several days to find out it was a fungus. Maybe certain types can be seen under a scope, I don't know.

A vet can identify fungal cells under a microscope. Some only show up with special stains which your vet might not have had, which might be why it was sent to a pathology lab.

To the original poster, fungal infections are opportunistic infections. A healthy animal with a healthy immune system will prevent one. If the tissue is injured and compromised, the infection has a better opportunity to become established. I think the biggest problem with burns is not the burn itself unless it is very severe, but the secondary infections, fungal or bacterial.

 

[MadameTerrapene]

She took a scraping and I think she looked at it under a microscope. The jock itch cream is Clotrimazole, just run of the mill antifungal cream. I am having silvadene sent over from the House of Chameleons, and I will probably start using it instead of the clotrimazole. I had thought it was a burn at first too but she took one look at it and immediately saw infection. Would a burn get rid of some of his spikes? Could a fungal infection do that?

I'm not trying to worry you more, but, if bad enough, both a burn and a fungal infection can cause permanent tissue damage and loss of spikes. The thing is, a burn can LEAD to a fungal infection...so, it may have been a burn first. If you have checked the cage and you feel that a UVB burn is unlikely, then it's probably just a fungal infection. Sure, they're usually opportunistic, but not always.

Anyways, The silvadene will treat both a fungal infection and a burn (to help prevent infection while the burn heals), so I'm glad that you ordered it. Just as a note, I use Betadine for a wash. It doesn't irritate the skin from my experience and it kills everything except people and animals (according to a doctor I once knew).

Good luck to you and your little guy!

 

[zlew]

OMG. UVB burn? That is 99% what happened. I had four people tell me he needed to get closer to his uvb light. and he's been hanging out near it a lot more than usual. I wonder what the behavior means, but if he can be burned from his UVB tube light, then I think that's what it is. The silvadene should get here on monday, and until then I'm just going to clean it and not put any cream on it.

 

[jajeanpierre]

OMG. UVB burn? That is 99% what happened. I had four people tell me he needed to get closer to his uvb light. and he's been hanging out near it a lot more than usual. I wonder what the behavior means, but if he can be burned from his UVB tube light, then I think that's what it is. The silvadene should get here on monday, and until then I'm just going to clean it and not put any cream on it.

I really doubt your panther had a burn from UV because the bulbs are pretty weak, even brand new. A UV burn is a sun burn. Ultra violet is a spectrum of light that they are able to see (we can't) and they will move in and out of the UV light.

If he has a burn, it is more likely to be a thermal burn from getting too close for too long to a basking bulb. UV bulbs don't produce much heat. A burn from a basking light is something that builds up slowly and they might not notice it before there is a lot of tissue damage. I once went to sleep on a heating pad set on low. In the morning I had an itchy back which I scratched and ripped out a one-inch diameter hole. I never felt any pain with it, but I ended up with a hole about 1/4 inch deep nonetheless.

 

[MadameTerrapene]

OMG. UVB burn? That is 99% what happened. I had four people tell me he needed to get closer to his uvb light. and he's been hanging out near it a lot more than usual. I wonder what the behavior means, but if he can be burned from his UVB tube light, then I think that's what it is. The silvadene should get here on monday, and until then I'm just going to clean it and not put any cream on it.

Ok, that sounds like a good idea. You can still use the cream if want. It couldn't hurt, really, and it might help by acting as a barrier against germs. Which UV bulb do you use and what's the closest that he can get to it currently? Is the UV bulb paired with his basking light and directed at the same basking spot?

I've seen UVB burns on aquatic turtles before, so it does happen a bit in the reptile pet-keeping world. I'm sure other people on this forum have experienced it in chams also, which is probably why a few posters in this thread suggested burn initially. If an animal sits too near their UVB lamp for too long, they can most certainly get burned. Which is why aquatic turtles owners have to be very careful with their UVB placement, because aquatics bask ALOT. I stick my UVB bulbs at a spot other than the basking spot, so that my critters don't sit and sunburn themselves by accident, but they still get exposed to some UVB when they're going about their business. I've been keeping and breeding terrestrial turtles for over 15 years and have never experienced an issue with MBD or burns in my own animals, so for my purposes this particular UVB placement technique works.

A thermal burn is a possibility as well, but that is usually from direct and prolonged contact with a heat source, in my experience.

 

[MadameTerrapene]

Oh, did your vet ever get back to you about those pictures?

 

[zlew]

I really doubt your panther had a burn from UV because the bulbs are pretty weak, even brand new. A UV burn is a sun burn. Ultra violet is a spectrum of light that they are able to see (we can't) and they will move in and out of the UV light.

If he has a burn, it is more likely to be a thermal burn from getting too close for too long to a basking bulb. UV bulbs don't produce much heat. A burn from a basking light is something that builds up slowly and they might not notice it before there is a lot of tissue damage. I once went to sleep on a heating pad set on low. In the morning I had an itchy back which I scratched and ripped out a one-inch diameter hole. I never felt any pain with it, but I ended up with a hole about 1/4 inch deep nonetheless.

I did take him outside a day or two before I noticed the burn. Is that more likely it? I'm hesitant to think it's his basking bulb because he's had the same one since February. I think it's either from too much sun or being too close to his UVB tube. (like, inches close. I did this under advisement from someone because he was having slight gular edema.) Here is what the vet said in response to the pictures: "From what I can see in the pics it looks like healthy healing skin. Maybe it looks different in person? I would expect the dead infected skin to slough off and leave healthy skin underneath. If You are concerned you can decrease treatment to once a day. You can also come in for a recheck." And there is actually some white starting to show through the black.