Garden Spiders a potentially good feeder?

[Edward Kim]

So i've been experimenting with local insects in my area as possible feeders. I currently breed Meru's which in my experience are picky eaters. I recently located a field which houses hundreds of garden spiders (Araneus diadematus) and thought they would be a nutritional meal especially because their so plump and juicy looking. I fed one of my male last night (he tagged that sucker out of the cup) and he seems to be doing well. I did some research and some entomology sites state the the venom they carry is mild. Has anyone had any experience with these spiders as feeders they sure are beautiful?

Cheers,

Ed

 

[jannb]

I would be afraid to do it. Jann

 

[Rocky]

i am pretty sure that i read somewhere that all spiders have a small amount of toxicity and that they can make them sick. Unless someone else says they are good I'd stay away from feeding them those.

 

[opihiman]

I would just be careful with the species of spiders that you feed. Toxicity if ussually based on how it affects humans. looking at what kind of prey the spiders eat may give you a better idea about what is OK>>But even then.

I have fed My CHams daddy long leg spiders with out any trouble too.

HOpe that helps...

OPI

 

[topknot20]

Well I would assume that it would be ok as far as an item they would consume normally in the wild... being that they are insectavores. Really in any chameleons home range there are probably tons of different insects that they eat on a regualr basis. My only objection would be that spiders and other wild caught insects harbor parasites that could be spread to the chameleons. Also the chameleons my be able to handle the toxicity of insects that they would encounter in their natural range but not others that would be found outside of that. I cant really be sure of that though!!!

I would be intresting if, being insectavores, that certain species had an immuntiy to spiders or other posionous insects of their natural home range... thats just my speculation though?!!

 

[ciafardo 4]

in the summer months i feed plenty of wild insects moths grasshoppers etc and have never had anything come up in a fecal exam i think giving your animals the widest variety of prey items out weighs the concern for parasites but hey different strokes for diff folks

 

[Edward Kim]

An article I read stated that most venoms are composed of proteins and denatures in the stomach. Unless there are openings in the digestive tract the venom ingested is harmless. I'm sure that spiders are a common food source in the wild. I'm worried about a bit that might occur during the feeding process.

 

[Lizardlover]

YES they will hurt your cham, i lost one because of stupidity

 

[albacheck]

My only objection would be that spiders and other wild caught insects harbor parasites that could be spread to the chameleons.

Do you have any references? I only know that some lungworms use snails as intermediate hosts.
The probability of introducing parasites through wild-caught insects is considerable low. The vast amount of Parasites are host-specific, meaning that the feeder-insect must have had direct contact with affected feces of wild reptiles, in order to pass it on to your cham.

Feeding wild-caught bugs from pesticide-free regions is one of the best things you can do for your chameleon. You are able to offer a variety of nutrients that you cannot simulate with crix, silies and who knows what else, even if you use a good gutload. And variety is one of the keys in the husbandry of chameleons.

I feed about 90% wild caught insects in the summer months, and my fecal exams have been all negative (my chams, not mine lol). Other keepers in Germany have been feeding wild-caught insects for decades, without any parasite-problems connected with the use of "meadow-plankton".

I'm sure that spiders are a common food source in the wild

Oh they most definatly are.Here's an extract from Nicolà Lutzmanns dissertation about the ecology of the chameleons of the Masoala-peninsula, North-East Madagaskar:

[...]The investigations of the food composition were difficult due to the high grade of digestion in the faecal samples and missing comparative literature, although the diversity of consumed animals was found to be huge. The most common remnants were the group of Arachnida, which was proven in 64,81 % of the samples, Coleoptera in 51,85 % and the group of Lepidoptera (which could be identified by their wing scales) in 38,89 %. The prey group with the most individuals were the Coleoptera with 23,43 % among all specified prey individuals followed by the Diptera with 18,14 % and the Arachnida with 12,34 %.

I mostly feed Pardosa lugubris but I've fed Araneus diadematus before, without any negative consequences.

with best regards,
albacheck

 

[Edward Kim]

albacheck,

Very informative post I'm glad to hear that someone other than myself is feeding garden spiders to their chams. What types of chams are you keeping.