Glass enclosures in 2017
- Thread starter nstd
- Start date
Angelwolf
Chameleon Enthusiast
Retention of too much moisture=mold. Mold spores+lack of fresh air exchange=URI for your cham, which can lead to death. Chams also don't understand the idea of glass, and the inability to climb it. They end up with rubs on the nose, infections, and way to much stress.
Dragon1516
Avid Member
I agree and yes mesh is always the way to go unless your dealing with some species of pigmy.
nstd
Established Member
The biologist on the podcast said the lower vent and top screen creates a chimney effect that provides good airflow. You would disagree? Thanks.
jpowell86
Chameleon Enthusiast
I own 78 chameleons and the majority of them are in glass enclosures. The only ones that are in screen enclosures are the ones living in my greenhouses. I like glass because ideal humidity is more easily reached and maintained. It also requires less misting. I also like glass because you can more easily achieve a naturalistic environment for your chameleon. I am a huge proponent of planted cages. And yes......I use substrate, LOL. Setting up a glass enclosure with proper drainage and making it a full bioactive setup is a great way to house chameleons.
I agree with @Angelwolf about stagnant air leading to URI, but I feel the majority of URI's we see in chameleons is from drafty cages coupled with dry air. That leads to RI's as well. Whether you use a screen enclosure or a glass enclosure, parameters still have to be monitored and tweaked. A huge problem with this hobby is that most new comers are led to believe that putting a screen enclosure up with a few fake plants and a UVB bulb is enough. Then they have a sick chameleon in 6 months. Chameleons require way more humidity than what most people offer.
I agree with @Angelwolf about stagnant air leading to URI, but I feel the majority of URI's we see in chameleons is from drafty cages coupled with dry air. That leads to RI's as well. Whether you use a screen enclosure or a glass enclosure, parameters still have to be monitored and tweaked. A huge problem with this hobby is that most new comers are led to believe that putting a screen enclosure up with a few fake plants and a UVB bulb is enough. Then they have a sick chameleon in 6 months. Chameleons require way more humidity than what most people offer.
nstd
Established Member
Thanks for your input.
Chris Anderson
Dr. House of Chameleons
Here are a few links for the two of you to read over and listen to. While too much moisture can be a serious issue, so can not enough moisture. Also the "chameleons don't understand glass" thing is a myth. Really not an issue at all in a properly setup glass terrarium.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/for-everyone-who-knows-you-cant-keep-chams-in-glass.31937/
http://www.chameleonnews.com/10JulAndersonGlass.html
http://www.chameleonbreeder.com/pod...n-in-glass-terrariums-with-dr-chris-anderson/
Chris
@Angelwolf, I'm curious as to what your misting scheduled is like for your glass enclosure that caused the molds buildup? I've kept veileds in glass enclosures (exo terras) and my misting schedule is ridiculously low (compared to Reptibreeze screen cages) and never have I observed any molds buildup or my veileds dehydrated.
@jpowell86, how many of the 78 chams in your glass enclosure developed and died from URI? I'm just trying to understand the statistics/facts that seems to be prevalent regarding URI and well ventilated glass enclosures. Thanks.
jpowell86
Chameleon Enthusiast
Well, none....that's why I still have 78 of 78. LOL!!
I'm just busting your chops a bit. I can honestly say that every RI I have ever experienced was in a screen cage or free range situation. That was a primary motive for switching to glass.
nstd
Established Member
Which brand of glass enclosure do you normally go with? how big? 2x2x4'?
Angelwolf
Chameleon Enthusiast
@jpowell86, that's an interesting perspective. When it comes down to it, it really depends on what we are taught. And what works for you. There really in no real right or wrong.
jpowell86
Chameleon Enthusiast
I use a lot of Exo Terra. I have them as small as 12x12x12 up to 36x24x36. I am in the process of getting some Protean enclosures that are much larger too.
Extensionofgreen
Chameleon Enthusiast
I feel it is worth clarifying, the "glass" enclosures most are using are ones that have vents at the top and bottom, that creates natural air currents and prevents stagnation. These "glass" enclosures are also thickly planted and this eliminates the issues of chameleons stressing out over their reflections or trying to climb the glass. You want to hug the sides and backs with your plantings and keep the font area near the doors relatively free from furnishings and branches. A smaller wattage basking bulb may be needed, since the solid walls hold temperatures better, and the misting schedules people keep are sort of ridiculous and it would probably do most species to have 1 5 min misting per day, in these enclosures, as they will have several hours to lap at the droplets on the foliage for drinking. You also need to consider drainage and there are ways to handle that available for your reading on many dart frog keeping sites and forums.
Chris Anderson
Dr. House of Chameleons
If you had stagnant air and drainage issues keeping a veiled in an Exo Terra Glass Terrarium, you were misting FAR too much. I mist my montane species in Exo Terra Glass Terrariums once a day for 1.5 minutes and have no problems with dehydration, etc., nor any issues with stagnant air or drainage.
Agreed. I've never had a URI or fungal infection in a Glass Terrarium when they are used correctly. Only ever had them in screen enclosures.
Chris
I have kept chams in glass enclosures for over 15 years with great success. I've never had a huge collection but the ones I've had have thrived. It's interesting I often see people say that chams are not at ease, or rub their noses, or react negatively to their reflections when kept in glass, but I wonder how much of this is based on actual experience or myths being spread around. I have never seen this with my animals. I have some VERY content and happy chameleons! For me, it is disturbing to see animals frequently hanging on the screens either sideways or upside down. My animals are always on their branches either basking or just hanging out. Also I see so many situations with screen cages where the basking light is simply laid on top of the cage and the animal can easily climb up and be within an inch or two of the light where they could easily be burned, but rarely does anyone say anything. I also really hate the tall overly narrow cages which are mostly seen. I do of course believe height is important, but so is horizontal space which is far too often overlooked. Just my opinions - I don't mean to say screen is never a good option, but I don't agree that it is superior to glass if glass is done correctly!
Extensionofgreen
Chameleon Enthusiast
I do have a veiled that insist on pawing at the one side of his enclosure that is plexiglass, because of the reflections. He has a 6' long, by 2' wide, by 6' tall enclosure, so there's no reason for him wanting out. He has more space, temperature gradients, and other options than many chameleons, but insist of trying to climb those branches in the reflection. I don't condemn glass enclosures, I am just pointing out that it is possible for a chameleon to react to the reflections. I'm smaller enclosures, having plants there to break up the reflection would resolve the problem and one day I'll get around to hanging some foliage there to break the reflection up, but it skips my mind.
I didn't mean to say it was impossible or never happens - just that I've personally never had that issue in all these years of using glass. I just don't think it's a reason to fear glass enclosures - I believe there are always exceptions and rarely guarantees!!! I would give anything to have some of your enclosures (and animals)!!!!
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