Gular Edema, No more hornworms

[noahrofsky7]

Hello,

First off, my male Jackson’s chameleon’s gular edema has gone down significantly since I have gotten him. I did not supplement for the first week, and gradually got him on the normal Jackson’s sup schedule, calcium no d3 twice a week, and a repashy lo-d once a month. This shows what proper husbandry can do for you, so do the research!

Now on to the real topic of this thread.

I like to give my chameleons as much feeder variety as possible, and I feed hornworms once every other week.

I noticed my male passed this yesterday. First signs of dehydration are present. All previous urates/poops have been white. I’m assuming it’s attributed to the hornworm not being digested properly.

It was a very small hornworm as I know cham’s sometimes have issues digesting them if they are not properly hydrated.

This is the first time I am noticing this color of urate/poop so I will monitor the next ones and will decide if I should feed hornworms again.

What are your thoughts? Should I keep feeding hornworms? I know some people that do not feed them at all because of these reasons.

Thanks!!

 

[JacksJill]

I have heard of hornworms causing short term watery poop & urates not yellow or orange urates. Sometimes urates become darker because of less frequent defication. That usually appears as orange crystals with in the urate,

 

[noahrofsky7]

I have heard of hornworms causing short term watery poop & urates not yellow or orange urates. Sometimes urates become darker because of less frequent defication. That usually appears as orange crystals with in the urate,

I will have to inspect it again later. It definitely looks like something didn’t go through well, or he just hasn’t gone poop in a while like you said.
Thanks!

 

[Lindasjackson]

I never feed hornworms to my Jackson’s because I’m afraid they will bite him. He’s always been well hydrated. I still do make sure he has a variety of bugs to eat though. So you only give calcium no D3 twice a week? Is it because your guy had gular edema? I give it every feeding except once a month when he gets his reptivite with D3. My guy only eats every other day so he gets calcium no D3 4 times a week.

 

[noahrofsky7]

I never feed hornworms to my Jackson’s because I’m afraid they will bite him. He’s always been well hydrated. I still do make sure he has a variety of bugs to eat though. So you only give calcium no D3 twice a week? Is it because your guy had gular edema? I give it every feeding except once a month when he gets his reptivite with D3. My guy only eats every other day so he gets calcium no D3 4 times a week.

I never feed hornworms to my Jackson’s because I’m afraid they will bite him. He’s always been well hydrated. I still do make sure he has a variety of bugs to eat though. So you only give calcium no D3 twice a week? Is it because your guy had gular edema? I give it every feeding except once a month when he gets his reptivite with D3. My guy only eats every other day so he gets calcium

I haven’t had any bites that I’m aware of. Here’s something I ripped from one of jacksjill’s posts “As a montane species (native to higher altitudes) Jackson's have decreased supplementation requirements compared to tropical species due to metabolism differences. Use calcium (without D3 or phosphorus) twice a week, a multivitamin once a month, and calcium with D3 once a month."
Chameleon Academy’s Jackson caresheet also brings this up, but doesn’t urge to cut down the supplementation.

 

[Lindasjackson]

Ok, thanks

 

[JacksJill]

2-3 times a week is enough calcium, more than that can lead to sluggish bowels.

 

[Alycia]

Do you fog at night? If not this is a great way to increase hydration.

 

[noahrofsky7]

Do you fog at night? If not this is a great way to increase hydration.

I do fog at night

 

[noahrofsky7]

Hello,

So I have been monitoring the males poop/urates and they have returned to looking hydrated

How can this be prevented other than being more hydrated?

Thanks

 

[nightanole]

Hello,

So I have been monitoring the males poop/urates and they have returned to looking hydrated

View attachment 316951

How can this be prevented other than being more hydrated?

Thanks

That doesnt look too dehydrated. Its light orange. That looks like a "extended period" urate. Now if there was dryish poop(poop without the water puddle) attached to it, and it happened more that once in a row i would be concerned. But an orange urate with no poop just means there was no reason to have a bowel movement for an extended period of time, and it turned orangish.

 

[noahrofsky7]

That doesnt look too dehydrated. Its light orange. That looks like a "extended period" urate. Now if there was dryish poop(poop without the water puddle) attached to it, and it happened more that once in a row i would be concerned. But an orange urate with no poop just means there was no reason to have a bowel movement for an extended period of time, and it turned orangish.

I didn’t think I’d be learning so much about poop lol

 

[nightanole]

I didn’t think I’d be learning so much about poop lol

Could be worse, could have to deal with tegu poops

 

[kinyonga]

I didn’t think I’d be learning so much about poop lol

We spend a lot of time talking about poop on here!

 

[Alycia]

With the gular edema did he have it when you got him? How long have you had him? Jackson's are notorious for getting edema with over supplementation. I know you said you use a multivitamin once a month but do you know the previous supplement schedule?

 

[noahrofsky7]

With the gular edema did he have it when you got him? How long have you had him? Jackson's are notorious for getting edema with over supplementation. I know you said you use a multivitamin once a month but do you know the previous supplement schedule?

He already had the gular edema when I got him. I’ve had him for a few months, and did not supplement for the first week or two I owned him. I then gradually got him on a supplement schedule that I like to follow (Arcadia earthpro-A twice a week, and repashy Lo-D once a month). Previous owner’s supplement schedule was calcium without d3 every other day and calcium with d3 once a month (unsure of brands used, but that doesn’t matter too much)

My female I bought alongside him had more mild gular edema, which has since gone away with the right supplement amounts.

 

[kinyonga]

Sometimes the edema comes from what you feed the insects.

 

[Lindasjackson]

Sometimes the edema comes from what you feed the insects.

That’s interesting. What could you feed insects that can cause gular edema in your Cham?

 

[kinyonga]

I can't tell you specifically. If a chameleon had gulag edem I would eliminate a couple of greens or veggies at a time and if it helped, omit it from then on. It's pretty much trial and error but leans towards things that might be hard on the kidneys, etc.

 

[Alycia]

Normally when we have people pull supplements for Gular edema in chameleons we have them pull the multivitamin until the edema is completely gone. Continue giving calcium with no D3. At that point start feeding your feeder insects foods that are high and beta carotinoids such as acorn squash butternut squash carrots and sweet potatoes. In doing this you can ensure that the insects have the vitamin a in them that your chameleon needs while you are not giving the supplements. I'm touching on this because there is still a touch of edema. @Kaizen can you chime in?