Gut loading crickets what to use besides the cricket food they got online

[PetNcs]

1. When you refer to GUTLOAD, you mean only what is physically within the digestive tract of the insect when it is fed to the chameleon. Is this correct?

YES,
Predominantly I refer to the content of intestinea BEFORE its digestion.

By
Definition, the GUTLOADING is a lrocess
Jow
To make the insext a vehicle for
Something, the we
Need to be swallowed (and subsequently digested) by the chameleon

If we would refer to the digestion of insexts, we would NOT refer to it as gutloading but as digestion

 

[PetNcs]

2. The Foods shown in the picture above represent very good food to care for and grow insects, but they would not be found in a wild insects diet and are indigestible by the chameleon When they are sitting in the insects digestive tract. Is this also correct?

Correct
With tiny change inserting the word MOSTLY between would and not

 

[PetNcs]

my interpretation is that you suggest I raise and care for my insects with the above mentioned high quality foods, and then, prior to feeding insects to my chameleon, I should gutload those insects with bee pollen, vitamins, and minerals

That is a brilliant rewording of
My suggestions

 

[DocZ]

Thank you @PetNcs
I think that’s an important distinction to make, and I now understand very well the process you recommend.

 

[jamest0o0]

Thank you @PetNcs
I think that’s an important distinction to make, and I now understand very well the process you recommend.

I talked to petr about this yesterday, and it makes a lot of sense what he's been getting at. The confusion might have been from the language barrier. He's not saying never feed your bugs a varied diet, but that it should be part of the feeder's regular diet rather than focusing on feeding them these foods only before you feed them off. Correct me if I'm wrong petr.

 

[PetNcs]

To @MissSkittles point, regardless of the evolutionary purpose, it seems very possible this process of insect “pre-digestion” within the insects digestive tract could make some of the nutritional value of the insects gut available to the chameleon

This may be somewhat inefficient, and unnatural, but not illogical

A absolutely agree
Imcluding -
And
With emphasis
To the accent on the incidentality and questionable
Purposefullenness

 

[PetNcs]

I talked to petr about this yesterday, and it makes a lot of sense what he's been getting at. The confusion might have been from the language barrier. He's not saying never feed your bugs a varied diet, but that it should be part of the feeder's regular diet rather than focusing on feeding them these foods only before you feed them off. Correct me if I'm wrong petr.

Ansolutely true
This is exactly what I say

To
Modify it, what I say is

DO IT,
Just do NOT call it GUTLOADING
Let the insects digest it and get greatly nutritious
And call it HQ FEEDING OF FEEDERS

 

[PetNcs]

@PetNcs is there any nutritional studies of wild caught insects in the chameleons natural environment?

I've seen several regarding commercial insects, and also some data on gut contents of wild chameleons, but I’ve never seen any that evaluates wild endemic insect nutritional data

it would be great to have this data, it could guide the feeding and supplementation of our feeders in a much more precise way

unfortunately not
This is one of the worst shortcomings of basic science that we even do not precisely know what and when the comedians feed on
I try to close this gap whenever I am in the field and get access to fresh droppings and I share my research results even before I officially publish them in order to help the community

 

[DocZ]

A absolutely agree
Imcluding -
And
With emphasis
To the accent on the incidentality and questionable
Purposefullenness

I like that you agree most with questionable purpose ?

 

[DocZ]

unfortunately not
This is one of the worst shortcomings of basic science that we even do not precisely know what and when the comedians feed on
I try to close this gap whenever I am in the field and get access to fresh droppings and I share my research results even before I officially publish them in order to help the community

I suspect the lack of commercial value beyond the pet trade will make this sort of data hard to produce

This is the sort of thing zoos should be funding research for so they can Better care for captive populations

 

[DocZ]

unfortunately not
This is one of the worst shortcomings of basic science that we even do not precisely know what and when the comedians feed on
I try to close this gap whenever I am in the field and get access to fresh droppings and I share my research results even before I officially publish them in order to help the community

And keep digging through chameleon poop for us. We appreciate it

 

[PetNcs]

I suspect the lack of commercial value beyond the pet trade will make this sort of data hard to produce

This is the sort of thing zoos should be funding research for so they can Better care for captive populations

Ansolutely
You hit the nail on the head

 

[PetNcs]

And keep digging through chameleon poop for us. We appreciate it

It is my privilege to do the shitty job for the community just please keep some level of respect for me despite of what I’m doing LOL

 

[Haley Hendrix]

@PetNcs What vitamin and minerals do you use besides bee pollen? I use both bee pollen and bug burger but am open to use others since thats not much of a variety.

 

[PetNcs]

Bug burger is a food not gutload
Inise bee pollen and Arxadia oroducts and ExoYerra multivitamin and Reptivite mainly

 

[Highway61]

Bug burger is a food not gutload
Inise bee pollen and Arxadia oroducts and ExoYerra multivitamin and Reptivite mainly

What form of bee pollen is best for insects to consume? Granules? Powder?

 

[PetNcs]

What form of bee pollen is best for insects to consume? Granules? Powder?

In general, high wuality bee pollen is harvested in granules.
Fresh one is the best, but almost inavailable
Then the geanules are dried
And then only orocessed in some cases to powder

Powder is a ailable only if harvested from conifers (lowest quakity and not good for chameleons as it is not natural for them) or after processing

So, the best available option is granulated dried bee pollen, where yiu can also assess the quality (diversity) with bare eye guess yourself which is better on the pic

 

[DocZ]

Bug burger is a food not gutload
Inise bee pollen and Arxadia oroducts and ExoYerra multivitamin and Reptivite mainly

you mentioned Arcadia. Their Insectfuel has calcium carbonate, carotenoids, amino acids, B complex vitamins, bee pollen, and mineral clay. Along with alfalfa and some other vegetable and fruit powders.
This looks like something that could be used as a gutload. What do you think?

 

[kinyonga]

@PetNcs said..."the insects living in areas that chameleons live in have no access to this type of food and even if they would have, they would not eat it. So again it is not natural"... Granted it is not natural to the insect in the wild...but if it's what the insects we use as feeders would eat or need to be healthy then the foods in the chart are what needs to be FED to the insects we use.
As for gutloading...I basically just feed them more of the same foods but use the dusting to help make up for what the chameleon needs.

If leaves eaten in the wild help pass the insects through the wild chameleon's digestive system, then wouldn't the roughage provided by the undigested content of the insects stomach serve the same purpose...do the same?

 

[PetNcs]

you mentioned Arcadia. Their Insectfuel has calcium carbonate, carotenoids, amino acids, B complex vitamins, bee pollen, and mineral clay. Along with alfalfa and some other vegetable and fruit powders.
This looks like something that could be used as a gutload. What do you think?View attachment 280152

Definitely
The vitamin mixtures are made more jniversal,
Not for chameleons only, so thag might contain even some undigestable particles but it is no harm