help panther health problem sunken eyes and other

[Pantherchameleon123]

ok so I was messing around in the cage and noticed that my male who is about 4 months old eyes were sunken in. I read on the fourns that this could mean that he is dehydrated. so I put him in the shower with me and dropped some water in his mouth. after I did this he is sitting with his mouth open and is acting very weird. he also seems to have trouble gripping the plants all of a sudden. yesterday he was acting fine. ate well and everything. I have him on a automatic mister. this is the second male I have had problems with. I have had zero with my female. the only thing I can think of is maybe I have him to.much calcium. any help would be awesome.

 

[fleetwoodchams]

Can you please describe his habitat, lighting? screened? size? How many chams in habitat? How often do you mist? Do you offer a drip cup?? Photos ?
I know there are lots of forum members that want to help but we need more info

 

[Pantherchameleon123]

he's in a screen with a reptisun 5.0 and a 160 mvb. I have my .ale and female in the same cage but they are divided. the ambient is about 83-85 and basking in 90-95. enclosure has live plants with automatic mister. feeding him gut loaded crickets

 

[Pantherchameleon123]

and he's missed every 5 hours fir 15 sec

 

[sharp229]

You mentioned that you dripped water into his mouth and that he is now keeping his mouth open. It sounds like he may have aspirated (breathed in) some water. Their air passage is in the middle of their mouth, not the back. Putting him in the shower was a good idea, but you should allow him to drink on his own. I have heard that it may help to get some of the water out if you hold him vertically upside down for a short time, if you can do it without stressing him out too much.

What kind of enclosure do you have? 15 seconds of misting every 5 hours seems low. I have a MistKing and it runs for 5 minutes once in the morning and then 15 seconds every two hours until 3 hours before he goes to bed. But how much you should mist highly depends on your setup.

 

[carol5208]

I agree that 15 seconds is not very long to mist, unless you see your chameleon drinking when you do so for that short of a period. Sunken eyes can mean dehydration but can also mean your chameleon in general is ill and he is going downhill. Dripping water on the nose should not cause him to aspirate, so I am not sure what happened when you gave him water. Also is the MVB a Uvb? If so, why do you have two uvb lights?

 

[fleetwoodchams]

You mentioned that you dripped water into his mouth and that he is now keeping his mouth open. It sounds like he may have aspirated (breathed in) some water. Their air passage is in the middle of their mouth, not the back. Putting him in the shower was a good idea, but you should allow him to drink on his own. I have heard that it may help to get some of the water out if you hold him vertically upside down for a short time, if you can do it without stressing him out too much.

What kind of enclosure do you have? 15 seconds of misting every 5 hours seems low. I have a MistKing and it runs for 5 minutes once in the morning and then 15 seconds every two hours until 3 hours before he goes to bed. But how much you should mist highly depends on your setup.

15 sec of misting every 5 hours is not enough. !!! And your cage is TOO hot Do you have a basking light on for them all the time? They don't need it unless temps drop below 55 degrees. Remember that UVB bulb gives off heat too. Gaping is a sign they are over-heated.

Some of my panther will not even start to drink until they see dripping for a few minutes. They are stimulated by the motion.
If you did accidentally aspirate him, keep an eye on him. If he starts coughing/sneezing or open mouth and drooling. He might have a respiratory infection. we have several vet forum members that have posted help with this problem. Do a search.
Mostly sounds like your guy was dehydrated. I have a rescue panther that I regularly give water with an eye-dropper. I am VERY careful to not FORCE the drinking. I insert the eye-dropper and only allow a tiny amount in his mouth and then wait for him to swallow thoroughly. Hope this helps Please keep us updated.

 

[Olimpia]

Could you please fill this in with as much detail as you can? https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/ It would help us quite a bit.

I would definitely increase the misting for a couple days and see if he perks up in the meantime. I would also either raise up the basking bulb or switch out the bulb for a lower wattage because that basking temperature is too high. You ideally want the male's temperature about 85F, and the female's closer to 80F, so I hope they each have separate lighting.

 

[KatiLemons]

If by MVB you are meaning a Mercury Vapor Bulb... which I am assuming you do.. You should just change this out to a 60w house bulb. Your basking temp is high. Depending on the age of your chameleon:
Baby/juvenile (<9 months): ambient 72-80F (22-26C), basking 82F (28C)
Adult males: ambient 75-80F (23-26C), basking 85-90F (29-32C)
Adult females: ambient 75-80F (23-26C), basking 80-85F (26-29C)
I also agree with everyone that you should be misting way more often and for longer periods of time. I would suggest also running a dripper during the day so that he has a water source to drink from. You can make one simply by using a cottage cheese container and poking a whole in the bottom with a pin and allowing it to drip onto the leaves of a plant. It would be nice for us to also see a picture of your enclosure.

 

[fleetwoodchams]

If by MVB you are meaning a Mercury Vapor Bulb... which I am assuming you do.. You should just change this out to a 60w house bulb. Your basking temp is high. Depending on the age of your chameleon:
Baby/juvenile (<9 months): ambient 72-80F (22-26C), basking 82F (28C)
Adult males: ambient 75-80F (23-26C), basking 85-90F (29-32C)
Adult females: ambient 75-80F (23-26C), basking 80-85F (26-29C)
I also agree with everyone that you should be misting way more often and for longer periods of time. I would suggest also running a dripper during the day so that he has a water source to drink from. You can make one simply by using a cottage cheese container and poking a whole in the bottom with a pin and allowing it to drip onto the leaves of a plant. It would be nice for us to also see a picture of your enclosure.

Agreed
If he doesn't want to make a wet mess I suggest putting a catch cup under the home-made drip cup. REMEMBER to watch it and remove it before you leave. Chameleons drown. So don't leave deep water unattended

 

[SimonTheCham]

if he's not better in about a week he may be septic and you need to contact a vet. I wont talk about dehydration or anything because everyone already has that covered best of luck!

 

[fleetwoodchams]

Could you please fill this in with as much detail as you can? https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/ It would help us quite a bit.

I would definitely increase the misting for a couple days and see if he perks up in the meantime. I would also either raise up the basking bulb or switch out the bulb for a lower wattage because that basking temperature is too high. You ideally want the male's temperature about 85F, and the female's closer to 80F, so I hope they each have separate lighting.

Please fill out this form. Then we can all help.

 

[Pantherchameleon123]

Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? 4 month old panther
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? crickets or mealworms daily
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? every 5 hrs for 15 sec
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.


Cage Info:

Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
reptibreeze medium split with female on one side
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? 160 watt mvb covering both sides with 5.0 cfl covering both also
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? 80-85 ambient basking 90-95
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? auto mister every 5 hrs for 15 secs and some other tines throughout the day
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? real and fake
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? ontop of a small dresser in bedroom
Location - Where are you geographically located? new York

 

[carol5208]

if he's not better in about a week he may be septic and you need to contact a vet. I wont talk about dehydration or anything because everyone already has that covered best of luck!

What do you mean by septic???

 

[Olimpia]

You need to answer ALL the questions thoroughly, please. You can't skip over the supplement question if you think you're giving too much calcium, for example, or we have no way to help you properly. Or what his poop looks like. We need to know these things.

I still think that basking bulb is way too strong and your basking temps are way too high, especially in a cage that small. I would switch out the bulb for something milder immediately and increase misting quite a bit more.

 

[fleetwoodchams]

What do you mean by septic???

I think septic means infected Carol

 

[fleetwoodchams]

You need to answer ALL the questions thoroughly, please. You can't skip over the supplement question if you think you're giving too much calcium, for example, or we have no way to help you properly. Or what his poop looks like. We need to know these things.

I still think that basking bulb is way too strong and your basking temps are way too high, especially in a cage that small. I would switch out the bulb for something milder immediately and increase misting quite a bit more.

Olimpia, Why have a basking bulb at all if he has adequate temps? I heard to use basking bulbs only if temps fall below 55 F and no red basking at night since it disrupts their sleep cycles. My chams have quite enough heat just with the UVB bulbs and a secondary halogen for lumens/plants. I am actually going to swap out the halogen for LED for summer so the don't over heat

 

[Pantherchameleon123]

Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? 4 month old
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? daily
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? daily gutloading with commercial food and veggies
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? crickets or mealworms daily dusting with half multi vitamins other half calcium with d3 sometimes I use liquid calcium and multi. it say for every 50 gs a certain amount of drops I may have used to many
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? every 5 hrs for 15 sec
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.


Cage Info:

Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
reptibreeze medium split with female on one side
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? 160 watt mvb covering both sides with 5.0 cfl covering both also
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? 80-85 ambient basking 90-95
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? auto mister every 5 hrs for 15 secs and some other tines throughout the day
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? real and fake
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? ontop of a small dresser in bedroom
Location - Where are you geographically located? new York

 

[xraygirl]

Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? 4 month old
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? daily
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? daily gutloading with commercial food and veggies
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? crickets or mealworms daily dusting with half multi vitamins other half calcium with d3 sometimes I use liquid calcium and multi. it say for every 50 gs a certain amount of drops I may have used to many
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? every 5 hrs for 15 sec
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.


Cage Info:

Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
reptibreeze medium split with female on one side
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? 160 watt mvb covering both sides with 5.0 cfl covering both also
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? 80-85 ambient basking 90-95
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? auto mister every 5 hrs for 15 secs and some other tines throughout the day
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? real and fake
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? ontop of a small dresser in bedroom
Location - Where are you geographically located? new York

Handling: cut back, it may be stressing him/them out too much. Especially that young.

Gutloading: You need to avoid the pet store commercial stuff. Some folks on here make their own, or buy some that forum members make. What kind of veggies?

Food: Add more variety to your chameleons diets, mealworms are not the greatest. Try to find some silkworms, hornworms and dubias, you can get them when they're small to feed to your young chams.

Supplements: Multivitamin should only be used twice a month.
Calcium WITH D3 should also be used twice a month, most folks alternate it between the multivitamin weeks. Too much or too little of this can be damaging! Are you lightly dusting? Or are you caking the crickets/mealworms? More is not better when it comes to supplements.

Water: You definitely need to mist more often. Some folks mist every 2-3 hours for MINUTES at a time, and run drippers as well.

Fecal: Please answer the fecal question, especially colors! There should be a brown part, and a white part, please describe both of those colors.

Cage: You need to give your guys their own cages, separated or not, thats a very small space for quickly growing chameleons. Is there a visual barrier between them where they CANNOT see each other?

Basking/UVB: Get rid of that MVB bulb, get a regular 'ol housebulb. 95 degrees is cooking those young panthers. WAY too hot. A CFL UVB bulb is probably not giving enough UVB light, you need to either get another CFL, or go with a longer tube light. Some folks use the longer fixtures and set it over multiple cages for great UVB coverage. The CFL's have been know to cause eye problems, so going with a tube fixture will be a overall better choice!

Humidity: Humidity needs to be measured, not just from a mister running. You need to have a way to measure the levels. It's very important! Too much humidity can cause a RI (respiratory infection). They need to have humidity that spikes up to 70% when misting, and then drop down between 30-50%.

Plants: What KIND of plants? Not all plants are safe for chameleons. They can get very sick or die from toxic plants.

Female: Re-guarding your female panther: are you aware of egg laying? Some female chams can lay eggs whether bred or not.

You have come to the right place to get help. But we got to get your husbandry straightened out

 

[Pantherchameleon123]

just soaked him in some Pedialyte. going to do that for a day or two and if he's not better by Monday I'm gonna bring him in. I think I wasn't misting him enough and I have him on every hour for 30 secs