Help. tail tip.

[bockreptiles]

Just noticed the tip of one of my veiled chams is necrotic. Question is why did this happen, and is surgery needed?

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled Female 7mo
Handling - rarely
Feeding - large 8 a day gut loaded crickets---none left in cage---
Supplements - daily calcium, weekly calcium+D3 weekly muti vitamin
Watering - Misting automatic 3 times a day for 2 min--mistking
Fecal Description - normal
History -have other chameleons on the same diet and habitat setup. i have never had this issue in the past.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - screen 24x36x48-- 2 females share with dense natural dividers
Lighting - 4x 51W T5 reptisun 5.0 bulbs
Temperature - day time 80-100 night 70-80
Humidity - live plants 30%
Plants - Yes ficus
Placement - secluded place, climate controlled
Location - Arizona

Thanks!

 

[SaintJimmy]

1. You need to separate your chameleons. YES the females NEED a SEPARATE CAGE! Each female will eventually need their own 18x18x36 cage at least, and have visual barriers between them. What are you talking about "natural barriers"? If they share that cage, they aren't getting enough space.

The only thing that I can think of that could cause that is getting the tail shut in the door, or stuck shed on the tail causing lack of circulation, or even a bite from the other chameleon.

It is definitely too far gone now to be saved, you should take the chameleon to a vet and have it properly removed. It's not doing the chameleon any favors.

 

[bockreptiles]

Yes, i think a shed might have done it. that sucks. barrier meaning they cant get to each other. lol Thanks for the input.

 

[Lovereps]

Welcome to the forum!
It's a great place for reliable info on chams--but there is room for everyone from total newcomer doing research about a potential purchase to the most knowledgeable chamkeepers.

Glad you're looking into why it happened, as it's important to determine the cause.
I can confidently say that virtually everyone here has made at least one mistake in their cham care, as none of us never err.

To second what SaintJimmy has said, there needs to be a physical separation and a visual separation between the 2 chams. The constant stress of thwarting the efforts of a male who always wants to mate can also take its toll on a female cham.

Common causes of tail tip necrosis are injury, inadequate hydration or vitamin deficiencies; often, but not always, a inadequate amounts of vitamin A.

Part of the solution is to check over all of your care to find which things need to be changed before further troubles appear and correct any vitamin deficiencies, if present.
for example, your supplement schedule is not right and the humidity is a bit too low.
Too much of one supplement can actually create a deficiency of another.
It's also important to be sure that the vitamins/minerals haven't expired and lost strength/effectiveness.
Here is a link to the Veiled care section of the forum :https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/

This is also where a good vet who knows how to treat chameleons comes in quite handy.

Not only can the necrotic tissue be removed before it becomes infected but a vitamin deficiency can be diagnosed and an injection of vitamin A administered (if it is the cause).
Vitamin A deficiency is also a frequent culprit in eye problems and can cause swollen lips.

To quote from here http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=17+1796&aid=3027

There are several forms of vitamin A. Beta-carotene is a form commonly found in vegetables. Many animals can convert beta-carotene into vitamin A. Others, such as the cat, cannot, and must have what is commonly referred to as preformed vitamin A. It was originally thought that chameleons could convert beta-carotene, but recent research suggests that they too may need preformed vitamin A.

There has been considerable controversy over how much, and what type of vitamin A chameleons need. Reports of small research studies in the 1990s suggested chameleons should not be given preformed vitamin A, since it could result in excessive levels of vitamin A in the animal (hypervitaminosis A). Later research found this information to be incorrect. Many chameleons today suffer from vitamin A deficiency (hypovitaminosis A) due to the misinformation published in the early 1990s.

In addition to not enough access to water, a lack of hydration can also be caused by inadequate humidity levels.

Vitamin deficiencies can be caused by a lack of variety in the diet, feeders who are not fed a variety of nutritious foods (as in "you are what you eat") or improper dusting of foods (too often, too little, wrong type, etc.).
A wonderful section to give a thorough read is the Resources area of this forum

Here is the link to the Veiled care section there:https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/

There are many additional sections there about health, feeding, finding a vet, enclosures and more.

Hope your cham is on the mend quickly and I hope that this post has helped you, too.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Another very important cause to tail tip necrosis is trauma. If you didn't shut it in the cage door by accident then most likely it was someone else's doing. This one looks like it was chomped on by the other chameleon in the cage based on the pictures. It may have been mistaken for a food item or it may have been an act of aggression. Even when they look like they're getting along and there are natural barriers of plants there can still be subtle acts of dominance over each other, or even instances of outright aggression, like this may have been. If the tissue is darkly colored and hard and unable to bend then it is beyond saving. It may be able to fall off on its own or it may need surgery and antibiotics. If it had been retained shed you would have noticed that a piece got stuck and there is often a very clean line of where it starts. This doesn't look like retained shed cutting off circulation.

Measure the tail with a ruler from the very tip to where the dark tissue ends and the normal tissue begins (in centimeters to be more accurate). Write that number down. Every 2-3 days measure it the same way with the same ruler to determine if the abnormal tissue is spreading. If it spreads at all then it should be surgically amputated to prevent spread of infection and save the rest of the tail and body. If it doe not spread then keep it clean, keep her separate and wait because over time it will most likely fall off on its own after the normal tissue heals beneath.

 

[SSimsswiSS]

Trauma, I can attest to that. My favorite tail-less female panther lost her tail back in October. And is living a normal life today.

 

[carol5208]

I also am guilty...I closed my chameleon's tail in the door once too!! It turned black and was bruised but I was lucky it never became necrotic.

 

[bockreptiles]

interesting alright i will monitor it over the weekend and see how it is on Monday. the chameleons don't have visual or physical contact with one another. I guess I should interrogate the family to get the full story. If not a stuck shed and it is trauma then someone has some explaining to do. lol

would some topical antibiotic be helpful?

Thanks again for all your help.

 

[Carlton]

interesting alright i will monitor it over the weekend and see how it is on Monday. the chameleons don't have visual or physical contact with one another. I guess I should interrogate the family to get the full story. If not a stuck shed and it is trauma then someone has some explaining to do. lol

would some topical antibiotic be helpful?

Thanks again for all your help.

Probably not, unless there is an open wound farther up the tail that isn't hard and black yet. You can't really do anything to help dead tissue, and if there isn't an opening the med can't reach the infection.

 

[carol5208]

I also am guilty...I closed my chameleon's tail in the door once too!! It turned black and was bruised but I was lucky it never became necrotic.

 

[Lovereps]

Bockreptiles, take note that Ferretinmyshoes is a chamkeeper AND veterinarian, so her advice is golden.

 

[SaintJimmy]

I am glad to have never done this! I hope the chammies tail is okay and can be removed, because it is too far gone definitely.

I am glad you got so much professional input on this.

Also, sorry for the misunderstanding on the caging.

 

[Dr O]

Trauma, I can attest to that. My favorite tail-less female panther lost her tail back in October. And is living a normal life today.

cute girl! "Stumpy"?

 

[Dr O]

in addition to all the external/metabolic causes of this happening that were mentioned, i don't think anyone mentioned that this could have all happened internally as well. the ultra-tip of the tail has the absolute weakest and most sluggish bloodflow in the body. any bacteria that might be circulating in the bloodstream often get hung up in those sluggish zones.

either way, not that i can tell 100% from a photo, but it does appear that the region is becoming necrotic w/ some secondary bacterial and/or fungal organisms. "dry gangrene" is the best you can hope for naturally as the area loses it's blood supply, essentially dries and mummifies, and falls off. those tails tend to look rather smooth however, while they discolor and shrink away. this looks a bit more lumpy and bumpy than that, which usually means a more active infection. the measuring advice that ferret gave you is going to be your best guideline in the coming days as to which direction this is going in.

 

[bockreptiles]

Update: still no change. I'm not sure if that is a good thing or not. The tip of the tail will fall off and the color is a little better but not as much change as I would have thought.