Help with aggressive and super shy veiled chameleon

Rontti

Rontti

Established Member
Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - Veiled, male, about a year old (the specific time is not known), has been with us for about ten months.
  • Handling - Never
  • Feeding - Feed him medium size crickets about 5 a day. I leave the crickets in his feeding bowl before I go to sleep and he eats them when he wakes up. The crickets are fed frozen vegetables and frozen papaya. Sometimes superworms and cucumber.
  • Supplements - Dusting crickets with Vetrak Nutrobal always before feeding.
  • Watering - I mist the vivarium 3-5 times a day. Also have a dripper almost always active. I make sure there are plenty of water droplets on leaves and sides of the viv. I also have two water cups for him. I have not seen him drink for a very long time since he's very shy but before he used to drink from droplets and even from a steady water source.
  • Fecal Description - His droppings should be fine. I checked the sticky post called poop 101 and also the vet has said that he's droppings should be fine. He has been tested for parasites but I don't think they found anything since we haven't been notified.
  • History - He used to be very active and social when we first got him. He used to eat from my hand and liked to explore. Then over one night his behaviour changed. It was about 6 months ago. He turned really hostile and didn't wanna come out on his own. We have also had to take him to the vet three times. Once it was a false alarm but twice thanks to dehydration and odd behaviour.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Exo terra 60 x 45 x 60 cm with screen top. Bioactive setup.
  • Lighting - Exo Terra Repti Glo 5.0 20W 60cm, Exo Terra Sun Glo 75W basking spot. All the lights go on at 8am on and go off at 8pm.
  • Temperature - Day temps: basking spot 33-35 C , lower 23-26 C. Night temp: 20-22 C. Meter is Lucky Reptile Thermo-Hygrometer Deluxe Pro. Has two different temperatures and records highest and lowest temps.
  • Humidity - Recently the humidity has sometimes dropped to around 50% due to the weather getting colder but usually it's around 60-80%. Usually the dropper and misting is enough to maintain the humidity.
  • Plants - I have one live plant. I don't know the name but it's not poisonous and he hasn't eaten it. Vet says it's safe. In addition I have lots of hanging plastic plants and multiple vines to climb on.
  • Placement - The viv is in a corner of the apartment. No vents or anything of that sort close. We live in a one bedroom apartment so it's not the quietest possible spot, but we cover the cage up always when we have visitors. The top is around two meters from the ground.
  • Location -Helsinki, Finland

Current Problem - We don't see our cham very often since he always hides when he sees us. He is very aggressive towards all people and displays no interest in the world outside his cage. I think this might be normal but he used to be very active and social and it the change feels very radical. He used to like exploring the apartment under my supervision. And I think it would be nice if he could expand his terratory and I don't think it's good for him that he can't hang out freely in his cage if we are around.

Also there is a problem with drinking. I haven't seen him drink on his own in a while. I get him to drink by spraying water on the tip of his mouth but I can only do this when I catch him in a spot where he just doesn't run away from.

(He has also started to hang out on the ground sometimes. Once we found him laying curled up in the corner and that's when we took him to the vet. He hasn't curled up after that. Usually he just stands there.)

I would really like to admire our handsome son but it's quite difficult because he is always hiding. I have covered the sides of the vivarium with cardboard on the outside so he feels more safe but I don't want him feeling claustrophobic.

Is there any way I could make him trust us more and to get him to hide less? I have tried giving food from my hand and leaving the door open a bit while I watch from farther away but nothing makes him want to interact with us.

Thank you for your patience! This is my first post here and I'm quite worried about him <3
Here is his setup and him sleeping.
terraario.jpg rontti nukkuu.jpg
 
Rontti said:
Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - Veiled, male, about a year old (the specific time is not known), has been with us for about ten months.
  • Handling - Never
  • Feeding - Feed him medium size crickets about 5 a day. I leave the crickets in his feeding bowl before I go to sleep and he eats them when he wakes up. The crickets are fed frozen vegetables and frozen papaya. Sometimes superworms and cucumber.
  • Supplements - Dusting crickets with Vetrak Nutrobal always before feeding.
  • Watering - I mist the vivarium 3-5 times a day. Also have a dripper almost always active. I make sure there are plenty of water droplets on leaves and sides of the viv. I also have two water cups for him. I have not seen him drink for a very long time since he's very shy but before he used to drink from droplets and even from a steady water source.
  • Fecal Description - His droppings should be fine. I checked the sticky post called poop 101 and also the vet has said that he's droppings should be fine. He has been tested for parasites but I don't think they found anything since we haven't been notified.
  • History - He used to be very active and social when we first got him. He used to eat from my hand and liked to explore. Then over one night his behaviour changed. It was about 6 months ago. He turned really hostile and didn't wanna come out on his own. We have also had to take him to the vet three times. Once it was a false alarm but twice thanks to dehydration and odd behaviour.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Exo terra 60 x 45 x 60 cm with screen top. Bioactive setup.
  • Lighting - Exo Terra Repti Glo 5.0 20W 60cm, Exo Terra Sun Glo 75W basking spot. All the lights go on at 8am on and go off at 8pm.
  • Temperature - Day temps: basking spot 33-35 C , lower 23-26 C. Night temp: 20-22 C. Meter is Lucky Reptile Thermo-Hygrometer Deluxe Pro. Has two different temperatures and records highest and lowest temps.
  • Humidity - Recently the humidity has sometimes dropped to around 50% due to the weather getting colder but usually it's around 60-80%. Usually the dropper and misting is enough to maintain the humidity.
  • Plants - I have one live plant. I don't know the name but it's not poisonous and he hasn't eaten it. Vet says it's safe. In addition I have lots of hanging plastic plants and multiple vines to climb on.
  • Placement - The viv is in a corner of the apartment. No vents or anything of that sort close. We live in a one bedroom apartment so it's not the quietest possible spot, but we cover the cage up always when we have visitors. The top is around two meters from the ground.
  • Location -Helsinki, Finland

Current Problem - We don't see our cham very often since he always hides when he sees us. He is very aggressive towards all people and displays no interest in the world outside his cage. I think this might be normal but he used to be very active and social and it the change feels very radical. He used to like exploring the apartment under my supervision. And I think it would be nice if he could expand his terratory and I don't think it's good for him that he can't hang out freely in his cage if we are around.

Also there is a problem with drinking. I haven't seen him drink on his own in a while. I get him to drink by spraying water on the tip of his mouth but I can only do this when I catch him in a spot where he just doesn't run away from.

(He has also started to hang out on the ground sometimes. Once we found him laying curled up in the corner and that's when we took him to the vet. He hasn't curled up after that. Usually he just stands there.)

I would really like to admire our handsome son but it's quite difficult because he is always hiding. I have covered the sides of the vivarium with cardboard on the outside so he feels more safe but I don't want him feeling claustrophobic.

Is there any way I could make him trust us more and to get him to hide less? I have tried giving food from my hand and leaving the door open a bit while I watch from farther away but nothing makes him want to interact with us.

Thank you for your patience! This is my first post here and I'm quite worried about him <3
Here is his setup and him sleeping.
View attachment 217973View attachment 217974
Click to expand...
Feed double that amount every other day, the veiled care sheet here has the correct amount of feeders to be given per feeding (remember to only feed in the morning). What veggies are the crickets gutloaded with? Add some more variety to his diet! Silkworms, hornworms, butterworms, mantids, locusts, small helix aspersa, painted lady butterflies, blue bottle flies, back soldier flies and larvae, stick insects, and roaches (red runner, dubia, orange headed, and ivory headed cannot climb or fly, green bananas can but are great feeders), etc. There’s a gutload list in food and nutrition in the resources tab here, the veiled care sheet here is a great source of info, as well! Could you post a pic of his supplement jar, I’ve never heard of it before. How often do you mist for? Do you change out and/or clean the water cups daily? He needs a minimum sized cage of 60 cm by 60 cm by 120 cm tall, with good ventilation. Get the lights out of the cage and put them on top of the screen or suspended above the screen ASAP! Once you upgrade to a 60 by 60 by 120 cm tall cage, get a 10.0, preferably Zoo Med, uvb bulb, with a reflector. 80% humidity is too high for a veiled, they need 40-70%. Veileds are notorious for having grumpy dispositions. Sounds like he’s hit his teenager stage. You can build up trust by just hanging out in the room and with handfeeding. It could just be his personality.
 
And add some more branches and vines, mostly horizontal, everywhere throughout the cage. Look into getting a pothos as well, they provide great cover, vines, lots of places to drink from, and are cham safe!
 
ERKleRose said:
Feed double that amount every other day, the veiled care sheet here has the correct amount of feeders to be given per feeding (remember to only feed in the morning). What veggies are the crickets gutloaded with? Add some more variety to his diet! Silkworms, hornworms, butterworms, mantids, locusts, small helix aspersa, painted lady butterflies, blue bottle flies, back soldier flies and larvae, stick insects, and roaches (red runner, dubia, orange headed, and ivory headed cannot climb or fly, green bananas can but are great feeders), etc. There’s a gutload list in food and nutrition in the resources tab here, the veiled care sheet here is a great source of info, as well! Could you post a pic of his supplement jar, I’ve never heard of it before. How often do you mist for? Do you change out and/or clean the water cups daily? He needs a minimum sized cage of 60 cm by 60 cm by 120 cm tall, with good ventilation. Get the lights out of the cage and put them on top of the screen or suspended above the screen ASAP! Once you upgrade to a 60 by 60 by 120 cm tall cage, get a 10.0, preferably Zoo Med, uvb bulb, with a reflector. 80% humidity is too high for a veiled, they need 40-70%. Veileds are notorious for having grumpy dispositions. Sounds like he’s hit his teenager stage. You can build up trust by just hanging out in the room and with handfeeding. It could just be his personality.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the quick response! This was really helpful. I give the crickets carrots, papaya, broccoli and baby corn and sometimes some berries but they don't seem to eat them. Also someone once said that I can give them fish food. I have sometimes given them that. I'll try to get some variety on his diet but it's really hard to get anything else than crickets and superworms here in Finland. And here is a picture of the suppliment jar. I mist about three times a day until all the surfaces of the viv are moist.
nutrobal 2.jpg nutrobal.jpg
 
Rontti said:
Thank you for the quick response! This was really helpful. I give the crickets carrots, papaya, broccoli and baby corn and sometimes some berries but they don't seem to eat them. Also someone once said that I can give them fish food. I have sometimes given them that. I'll try to get some variety on his diet but it's really hard to get anything else than crickets and superworms here in Finland. And here is a picture of the suppliment jar. I mist about three times a day until all the surfaces of the viv are moist.
View attachment 217976 View attachment 217975
Click to expand...
Never feed fish food! Use either a quality commercial gutload, like Mazuri, Repashy, Cricket Crack, Pangea, or Arcadia, and/or organic fresh fruits and veggies with bee pollen and spirulina (there’s a gutload list here in the food and nutrition tab in resources). How often is each misting session? It should be at least 2 minutes long each time. The label is hard to read, does it say to use every feeding for insectivores?
 
ERKleRose said:
Never feed fish food! Use either a quality commercial gutload, like Mazuri, Repashy, Cricket Crack, Pangea, or Arcadia, and/or organic fresh fruits and veggies with bee pollen and spirulina (there’s a gutload list here in the food and nutrition tab in resources). How often is each misting session? It should be at least 2 minutes long each time. The label is hard to read, does it say to use every feeding for insectivores?
Click to expand...
Yea it says insectivores
 
I know it will be hard, my guy didn't come out of his shell for around half a year. what I find best is to spend a lot of time near him, let him know everytime you come near him you wont try to take him out of his cage. once he starts to trust you more then try putting the tip of your hand under his chin and luring him out with food like hornworms, something that he loves. he'll probably walk onto your arm cant guarantee tho bc he may just turn around and say no. then try tong feeding or hand feeding and build up his trust more. one thing u never want to do is come from above. that will scare him. good luck!!
 
That supplement has D3 in it and should only be used twice a month. You are over supplementing. You need a calcium powder for daily feeding and the vitamins with D3 twice a month.
 
KingGoodman said:
That supplement has D3 in it and should only be used twice a month. You are over supplementing. You need a calcium powder for daily feeding and the vitamins with D3 twice a month.
Click to expand...
Yes, there are many ways to supplement:
1- phosphorous free calcium without D3 (like Zoo Med Repticalcium without D3) every feeding, phosphorous free calcium with D3 (like Zoo Med a Repticalcium with D3) every two weeks, and a multivitamin without D3 (like Zoo Med Reptivite without D3) every two weeks
2- phosphorous free calcium without D3 (like Zoo Med Repticalcium without D3) every feeding and a multivitamin with D3 (like Zoo Med Reptivite with D3) every two weeks
3- an all in one supplement every feeding (like Repashy Calcium Plus LoD or Sticky Tongue Farms Minerall- gutload with Sticky Tongue Farms Vitall the night before if using Minerall)
4- Arcadia supplements using the Arcadia insectivore supplement schedule off of their website
 
ERKleRose said:
Yes, there are many ways to supplement:
1- phosphorous free calcium without D3 (like Zoo Med Repticalcium without D3) every feeding, phosphorous free calcium with D3 (like Zoo Med a Repticalcium with D3) every two weeks, and a multivitamin without D3 (like Zoo Med Reptivite without D3) every two weeks
2- phosphorous free calcium without D3 (like Zoo Med Repticalcium without D3) every feeding and a multivitamin with D3 (like Zoo Med Reptivite with D3) every two weeks
3- an all in one supplement every feeding (like Repashy Calcium Plus LoD or Sticky Tongue Farms Minerall- gutload with Sticky Tongue Farms Vitall the night before if using Minerall)
4- Arcadia supplements using the Arcadia insectivore supplement schedule off of their website
Click to expand...
OK thank you <3 this has been very very helpful. Could the over supplementing explain his weird behaviour? Or is it just a part of the normal growing up process?
 
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