Hornworms and Phoenix worms - can they pupate in same container of soil?

[trickedoutbiker]

So I've been trying to do a lot of research as far as feeder insects lately.... Because once I move to a new place on Feb. 12, I am going to be getting lots more variety of insects to be used as feeders. With any insects I get, if they can pupate into another insect, I am going to attempt to do so (that way one insect serves as two types of feeders. a 2-for-1)

Now I understand that with Hornworms, when they get to their max size, they will stop eating and start to lose their normal color, typically starting to fade. They will also become restless and begin to look for a spot to bury themselves and begin to pupate.

I also know that with Phoenix Worms, you feed them and feed them, and they will get big and stop eating, and begin to turn super dark and get a little harder. That is when you know those are time to pupate. These worms also burrow underground to begin the pupating process to turn into Black Solider Flies.

I am planning on having a small kritter keeper with dirt or crumbled wet paper towel in it for them to dig into. My question is, can I put the Hornworms and the Phoenix worms in the same bin to bury themselves and begin to pupate, or will those two worms somehow kill each other?

I mean it's the same for both really.... They dig into semi-moist dirt/paper towl/ substrate/ whatever..... So I figured that I could put them all in the same bin, and it would basically be my pupae-hatching bin for those two insects. Would that work?

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While we are on the subject of pupation.....

I am also going to be getting silkworms for the first time, hatching them as eggs and growing them with Silkworm Chow. I want to feed these off mostly as worms, but as I stated before, this is one of those 2-for-1 insects that can turn into a month. So with that said...

Silkworms don't bury themselves to pupate, so how do they begin to cocoon as well if anyone knows? How do you know when they are ready, and what do you do to make them pupate? I know they are fully grown and ready to pupate after 28 days or so, but what's the best way to go about making them do it? Do I put them in a container with toilet paper tubes to make cocoons in (I believe I saw that somewhere, not sure where), or how does that work?

Any tips and advice would be great. They say that most people fail their first time with new insects.... I'm trying to do some preventative maintenance so that way I don't.

 

[trickedoutbiker]

nobody?

 

[nick barta]

BSF will pupate without soil. Best to have them in a little container so when they hatch you can put it in the cage open the lid to let them go.
members have reported that HW can pupate without soil, use a plant pot with the dirt low enough they can't stretch to the top to climb out. Soil damp/dry, not soppy.

As far as variety, wait till you see my ad tonight, we are adding LOTS of feeders!

CHEERS!

Nick

 

[brownie64]

Not sure about the worms you mentioned, but I know super worms will not pupate unless they are singled out. I guess they are afraid they will be eaten by the others if they do.

 

[trickedoutbiker]

BSF will pupate without soil

I didn't know that. Everywhere I've read, says that they typically dig into the ground to try to pupate. Had no idea they could pupate without soil. Would throwing them in with the ready-to-pupate hornworms be bad though? I wouldn't think the two worms would kill each other - they both eat plant material. And once hatched, a BSF eats nothing. and the Hawkmoth doesn't really eat or do much of anything either (from what I've researched, those moths are pretty boring when they hatch. Mate and die. lol.)

When you buy phoenix worms, it says not to feed them. I contacted the owners on Phoenixworm.com and they told me not to feed the worms too, as most people feed off the phoenix worms. I asked if they will pupate in the container they come in, and was told that they will typically not pupate inside the container. I then informed them that I was buying for a chameleon and I WANT some to turn into flies because anything that flies will stimulate a cham. They told me they cannot give any help in regards to that process or the breeding process as there are too many factors involved.

So.... I'm pretty sure you GOTTA feed them to make them grow to their potential, which is when they will darken and want to pupate. I've researched and come across people who just throw lots of vegetable scraps and fruit in with them in a container, and they devour it all. They eat pretty much anything, nature's little garbage cans they say. lol. I've read many places, different things to feed them and methods and such. What's the best way to get them to pupate though? Just stuff them till they darken, then put them in a separate jar with no food when they are dark and ready?

As far as variety, wait till you see my ad tonight, we are adding LOTS of feeders!

Didn't know that you sold feeders too. When did you start this? I will have to keep an eye out. If you are cheaper than where I'm be getting mine, will go through you instead

Not sure about the worms you mentioned, but I know super worms will not pupate unless they are singled out

I stay away from mealworms and superworms. Lots of people use them without harm, but I know that scientifically speaking, a mealworm and a superworm are made up of mostly hard exoskeleton which is a little harder on the digestive system than other feeders. For this very reason, I avoid them.

 

[Alexander1]

nobody?

I was able to get some hornworms to pupate recently, I just moved them into a small super work container with a paper towel that I kept moist, couple weeks later I got my first moth...
The silkworm eventually made a cacoon and emerged as a cool little moth, I did intent to start breeding so I didn't take any extra steps after they where moths, they where just long awaited snacks for my veiled.. I let nature take its course.

 

[Alexander1]

I also had a couple meal worms pupate on their own and become beetles, no extra steps, just junk food for my Cham..

 

[jpowell86]

I have a continuous cycle of pupating horn worms. I just out them in a Tupperware bowl with moist soil. Once they pupate, I dig them out and lay them on top. I have a fairly regular cycle of hawkmoths. They are my Melleri's favorite food!

 

[trickedoutbiker]

Thanks everyone!