How can I help Walter?

[spatulars]

I don't think my chameleon's condition is presently life-threatening. I know the bottom line is that I need to see a vet, I have a few to call in the early morning tomorrow to see if they have experience with chameleons. Until then I wanted to ask you guys because most of you know much more than me, and even after reading I just don't understand what's wrong with Walter. I was hoping someone may be able to shed some light.

I'm brand new to chameleon keeping, but I researched before hand. Close to a month ago I purchased Walter, 50% ambilobe 50% blue on blue ambanja panther chameleon - hatched september, from the best breeder I found online. They were super helpful and gave me lots of care sheets.

Walter has:

-screen cage, reptisun 5.0, zoomed basking, digital thermometer/hygrometer, 5 vines (washed), 2.5 foot ficus (washed), exoterra fake plant(washed), temp high 85 degrees, high humidity, little dripper and misting bottle, normal feces, adcham gutload, small crickets (that can get out of my cage), newspaper to soak water changed daily

I took care with his set up but after 1.5 weeks of having him he started showing signs of lethargy and stopped eating as much as he had been. I asked for advice, and you guys helped me out. He was on his way to being dehydrated because I had his temps too high, so I changed them to a high of 85 and started misting more frequently.

The next day he was better and exploring all over again, his appetite had not completely returned though.

So about 3 days ago he started shedding. When he started this, he stopped eating completely. He was energetic about it, he got so much of it off, but not all of it on his first day. I read about shedding and everyone said it's a one-day thing. I was just happy he was feeling better so I chalked the delay up to his being dehydrated before, and I continued misting more frequently because I also read that higher humidities will help them slough off the skin faster.

Third day in, and he hasn't got the skin off of the top of the head (but he rubs it) or off of his legs.

He looks better, he acts better, and he's trying to get his skin off, but despite 60% humidities and me giving him warm showers, the skin is not peeling away.

-he has 2 exoterra vines 3 flukers vines and a ficus and an exoterra fake ivy thing ... could the surfaces not be rough enough for him to rub off the skin?

-is this why he is not eating?

-could the dryness he experienced before have ruined his shed, if so, will water help?

-could being a crossbreed somehow give him shedding problems?

-is there anything else I can do to help him?

I've read that problems shedding are mostly due to bad environments, so I've been thinking about getting him a cage with different dimensions. His cage is 28 inches high, 20 inches wide, and 24 or 26 inches long. I feel like maybe squareness of this cage has too much open space and makes him feel too exposed and has too many temperature gradients.

-would 16 x 16 x 30 (taller and thinner) be more appropriate while he is small?

-can I safely switch him to a new cage without killing him?

-will a denser foliage put him more at ease or help him shed?

Also, Walter has never been handled. I was giving him some time to get used to us when he started feeling bad, so I didn't try anything while he was lethargic.

-how can I safely get him into a shoebox to take him anywhere?

-will a good chameleon vet likely be able to help, or will he do a bunch of tests with no solutions?

I think that's about everything. haha, took long enough. Has anyone ever had any troubles like this?

I ruined Walter.

*I added pictures... the first few are of Walter's bad shed, I don't know if they are clear enough but I made him really mad trying to take them, also I don't know if you can clearly see how skinny he is, but he's very skinny. Then the last is of his basking spot at the top of the cage.

 

[AFH]

It sounds to me like you got two problems, which may or may not be related.

1. He can't get the excess shed off.
2. He's not eating

I'm not sure why his excess shed wouldn't be coming off unless it's because of the dryness before hand. Showers would probably help. Keep that up. If he's young, he'll probably shed again before too long. Sometimes my chams have a spot that just doesn't totally come off and hangs in there until their next shed. But it's usually not the amount that you appear to be talking about. Photos would help.

You said you've had him a month, but you didn't say how old he is. I'm figuring he's about 4 months, so his cage should be close to the right size, maybe a little big. I usually keep my newbies in an 18"x18"x12" screen cage to make sure they can find their food easily, then move them into bigger cages as they grow.

You said the small crickets can get out of the cage. How small are they? At 4 months (assumption) he should be able to eat crickets big enough that won't get out of a regular screen cage. If you've got screen that a 1/4" cricket can get out of, then it may be too big. If not, seal up the cracks.

Also, you state you've got a 2.5 foot ficus in a 28" cage along with another fake plant. Is there a clear basking spot where he can get unobstructed light and someplace he can get unobstructed UVB? If you've got the cage overstuffed, or where it's blocking most of his light, he may feel like he's living in the dark all the time, which might make him lethargic. A picture of the cage may help.

You also may try offering him some different types of food. Maybe he's finicky and is tired of crickets at this time. Maybe he can't find them. Maybe they're getting out before he eats them.

Trust me, I FAR lack the experience of some of the members here, but these are things that struck me from reading your post.

Good luck, and maybe an expert can chime in.

AFH

 

[dodolah]

see my response in red

Walter has:

-screen cage, reptisun 5.0, zoomed basking, digital thermometer/hygrometer, 5 vines (washed), 2.5 foot ficus (washed), exoterra fake plant(washed), temp high 85 degrees, high humidity, little dripper and misting bottle, normal feces, adcham gutload, small crickets (that can get out of my cage), newspaper to soak water changed daily

So about 3 days ago he started shedding. When he started this, he stopped eating completely. He was energetic about it, he got so much of it off, but not all of it on his first day. I read about shedding and everyone said it's a one-day thing. I was just happy he was feeling better so I chalked the delay up to his being dehydrated before, and I continued misting more frequently because I also read that higher humidities will help them slough off the skin faster.
yes

He looks better, he acts better, and he's trying to get his skin off, but despite 60% humidities and me giving him warm showers, the skin is not peeling away.
Since he is a panther, a little bit extra humidity will
be good, especially when he has problem shedding. Try punching it up to 70%

-he has 2 exoterra vines 3 flukers vines and a ficus and an exoterra fake ivy thing ... could the surfaces not be rough enough for him to rub off the skin?
the vines and the ficus are sufficient

-is this why he is not eating?
very possible. During shedding chameleon often cutback his food intake. the whole process is very annoying to your chameleon. It's probably itchy too

-could the dryness he experienced before have ruined his shed, if so, will water help?
water will help. Continue warm misting and if your chameleon is old enough (i say 5 months), a warm shower will also help. Another way is to soak the unshed part into warm water. Some also apply mineral oil on it (i have never try this be4)

-could being a crossbreed somehow give him shedding problems?
no

-is there anything else I can do to help him?
try increasing warm mistings and all the advice above

I've read that problems shedding are mostly due to bad environments, so I've been thinking about getting him a cage with different dimensions. His cage is 28 inches high, 20 inches wide, and 24 or 26 inches long. I feel like maybe squareness of this cage has too much open space and makes him feel too exposed and has too many temperature gradients.
how old is he? he will be fine in that cage until he's 4.5 months old or older. or until he grew to 4 inches or bigger SVL

-would 16 x 16 x 30 (taller and thinner) be more appropriate while he is small?
your current cage is fine

-can I safely switch him to a new cage without killing him?
don't bother

-will a denser foliage put him more at ease or help him shed?
definitely will help him feel safer. but remember to give some clearings here and there. let me see your current cage situation. can you post a pic?

Also, Walter has never been handled. I was giving him some time to get used to us when he started feeling bad, so I didn't try anything while he was lethargic.
great

-how can I safely get him into a shoebox to take him anywhere?
search this forum about moving your chameleon. There has been a lot of tips from senior members about this

-will a good chameleon vet likely be able to help, or will he do a bunch of tests with no solutions?
a good exotic vet should be able to take care of that

I ruined Walter.
no you're not. this is a part of owning a chameleon. don't beat yourself too much. from what you have described, i think you are well researched enough to own one. if this worries you, you can always go to the vet to make sure. Hope everything is alright with Walter, keep us posted

 

[AFH]

Oh, another thing I thought of. Where is Walter situated? If you've got him in the living room with tons of activity going on around him, it may be stressing him out.

AFH

 

[PardalisGirl]

Picture?

A good picture would really help us get an idea of the shed situation and over all body condition. You seem to feel that something is not quite right. I would trust that feeling and continue to figure out what is wrong. Warm showers should help the shed situation. If most of the shed is gone his eating should return to normal. It's usually when they have a body covered in tight pre-shed skin that they don't want to eat.

 

[spatulars]

His crickets vary from 1/4" to 1/2", some may be a little bigger. Now that I have read more, I think it would be better to feed him phoenix and silk worms, although silk worms seem to be pretty hard to get a hold of at the moment. The crickets get out because the cage isn't made well. Also the door sticks and sometimes I shake the whole cage just to open it, which is another reason I'm considering getting a new one.

 

[DarkRapture]

His crickets vary from 1/4" to 1/2", some may be a little bigger. Now that I have read more, I think it would be better to feed him phoenix and silk worms, although silk worms seem to be pretty hard to get a hold of at the moment. The crickets get out because the cage isn't made well. Also the door sticks and sometimes I shake the whole cage just to open it, which is another reason I'm considering getting a new one.

is it possible to repair the door? i wouldn't try anything thats gonna stress him out even more like moving him into a new cage when he is already upset. also, what are you using for supplements? it could be possible that he is vitamin D deficient somehow, and it is causing problems with the shed. is he actively trying to get the skin off, or just hiding in a corner? keep up with those mistings like everyone else is saying and try cup feeding as well. then you can be sure how much he is eating and know that the crix will stay dusted in a nice dry cup...

 

[Brad Ramsey]

Pre-formed vitamin A would play a larger role in the condition of the skin.

-Brad

 

[spatulars]

is it possible to repair the door? i wouldn't try anything thats gonna stress him out even more like moving him into a new cage when he is already upset. also, what are you using for supplements? it could be possible that he is vitamin D deficient somehow, and it is causing problems with the shed. is he actively trying to get the skin off, or just hiding in a corner? keep up with those mistings like everyone else is saying and try cup feeding as well. then you can be sure how much he is eating and know that the crix will stay dusted in a nice dry cup...

I have repcal w/ d3 and herpetivite, but since he's eating much less now, I doubt he's getting much (if any) of the supplements. And I tried cup feeding him this morning and he looked at the crickets in the cup but then he just looked at me and froze and wouldn't move, and he ducked behind the branch as soon as I turned away, and showed me some red stripes/green face when I came back later.

I think he may have eaten one after that, though.

 

[DarkRapture]

is he getting enough uvb exposure? it would be nice to see a pik of the whole setup with the door open...

i definately agree with brad about the pre-formed vitamin a!! beta carotine is a preformed source and should be avoided as the chams cannot absorb ithe same way us humans can. acetate is a much safer/better source of Vitamin A...

 

[spatulars]

Hmmm... the herpetivite has beta carotene. It also has acetate. So, his skin condition could be bad due to lack of proper vitamin a because his body can't use beta carotene?

 

[Brad Ramsey]

The controversy concerning Vitamin A.
Beta carotene will not hurt your chameleon.
There is some speculation as to whether or not they can convert it.
Pre-formed Vitamin A should be offered very sparingly (an amount equal to one tiny drop every other week)

-Brad

 

[spatulars]

Oh, another thing I thought of. Where is Walter situated? If you've got him in the living room with tons of activity going on around him, it may be stressing him out.

AFH

He's in the back of my dining room. A hall does pass through the front of it maybe 6 feet away from his cage, but we don't eat there, so there's never much movement or noise for more than a few seconds.

 

[AFH]

Sounds good. When theyr'e getting aclimated, it's best to leave them be in a low traffic area. It takes a while for some to get used to you (don't confuse this with "liking you" or "bonding"). After a while they figure out you're not going to eat them and that you bring them food.

I've got a couple really shy ones that don't even like to be looked at (unless they don't know it). One girl won't eat if I'm watching, but her food always gets converted to poop, so I don't worry about her.

AFH

 

[joefarah]

Can I just tell you that your post was THE best "Help Me" post I have ever read on any forum. A tad lengthy... lol but WOW! If everyone who needed assistance would post like that we could all save a lot of time around here.

Oh yeah, and I sincerely hope he pulls through and does great for you. It sure sounds like you went above and beyond with all of his housing and care stuff... just like you did with this post. It sucks to see someone who has really spared no expense and done all their homework have problems like this.

You'll be an expert keeper in no time flat with the way you approach things.

Again, I hope everything works out...

- Joe

 

[spatulars]

The controversy concerning Vitamin A.
Beta carotene will not hurt your chameleon.
There is some speculation as to whether or not they can convert it.
Pre-formed Vitamin A should be offered very sparingly (an amount equal to one tiny drop every other week)

-Brad

Do you think that hypovitaminosis A could have developed over just a few weeks?

 

[spatulars]

Can I just tell you that your post was THE best "Help Me" post I have ever read on any forum. A tad lengthy... lol but WOW! If everyone who needed assistance would post like that we could all save a lot of time around here.

Oh yeah, and I sincerely hope he pulls through and does great for you. It sure sounds like you went above and beyond with all of his housing and care stuff... just like you did with this post. It sucks to see someone who has really spared no expense and done all their homework have problems like this.

You'll be an expert keeper in no time flat with the way you approach things.

Again, I hope everything works out...

- Joe

Haha, yeah, it was long. I go lengthy routes with explanations for some reason. Maybe it's a curse.

I feel much better because I have an idea of what his problem is thanks to this forum. Not quite sure what to do about it. I'm just going to stick it out, take him to the vet, hope he starts eating soon, and provide better feeders and supplementation.