Hurt Arm

b.dvis15

b.dvis15

New Member
I need some help.

Long post but I will cover just about everything that will be asked in the comment section.

One week ago my 1 year old panther started hanging his front right arm and not using it anymore. The day before that he was fine. He still eats, drinks and moves around but its not near as much. The arm is weak and a little swollen but he uses it occasionally but never with a firm grip.

I use a 5% T5 UBV, jungle dawn plant light, and a heat lamp thats only on for 4.5hrs. All other light are 6am - 6pm. UVB bulb was just replaced and is right where it should be at 3.0 at the top. Humidity during the day is 40 - 60% and night time fluctuates between 75 - 99%. He drinks in the morning if he is thirsty.

He eats crickets, BSFL, silkworms as staple food then the occasional superworm and hornworm as treats. Usually 1 every other day. Always dusted with calcium without D then the 1st and the 15th with D. Bee pollen on mondays.

So my question is what happened? He was totally fine for 6 months then over night it changed. Maybe he fell? I’ve also read maybe he’s intaking too much calcium because I’m dusting too heavy?

I took him to the vet for an opinion not thinking to get much out of it. The vet was very cautious and only got his weight and prescribed an anti inflammatory. Don’t know if I should even use that but it was only $15 so I thought why not.

Any suggestions / advice would be much appreciated.
 

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He lives in a 24x24x48 cage.

I’m starting to lean more towards I was giving him to much calcium. I think im going to start feeding every other day along with a very light dusting if any and see what happens.

Also, do you think u should use the anti inflammatory medication the vet gave me today. (Meloxicam 1.5mg/ml)
 

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Always dusted with calcium without D then the 1st and the 15th with D. Bee pollen on mondays.

People have been saying the repti calcium without D is junk. That’s currently what I have been using.
 

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Can you please post close up pics of your repashy bottles? I believe one is superload which is fine for feeding crickets but would have way to high of a protein level if you feed any type of roach. Other looks to be LOD multivitamin which would be correct on the 1st and the 15th of the month.

Did the vet do an xray or run blood work? What weight did they say he was at now? How old is he?

This looks like gout to me. Blood work would be how you would determine this.

Per the medication... Any medication can be hard on their renal system. I would personally be hesitant to medicate without figuring out what the root cause is so that can be treated instead. I highly doubt it has anything to do with over powdering your insects. Unless they look like powdered donuts. Gout is linked most commonly to hydration issues or feeding insects like roaches that have high uric acid levels from too much protein being fed to them.

I would be extremely cautious giving bee pollen orally. There have been issues with chams developing edema with too much bee pollen. Better off using this in your gutload.
 
Beman said:
Can you please post close up pics of your repashy bottles? I believe one is superload which is fine for feeding crickets but would have way to high of a protein level if you feed any type of roach. Other looks to be LOD multivitamin which would be correct on the 1st and the 15th of the month.

Did the vet do an xray or run blood work? What weight did they say he was at now? How old is he?

This looks like gout to me. Blood work would be how you would determine this.

Per the medication... Any medication can be hard on their renal system. I would personally be hesitant to medicate without figuring out what the root cause is so that can be treated instead. I highly doubt it has anything to do with over powdering your insects. Unless they look like powdered donuts. Gout is linked most commonly to hydration issues or feeding insects like roaches that have high uric acid levels from too much protein being fed to them.

I would be extremely cautious giving bee pollen orally. There have been issues with chams developing edema with too much bee pollen. Better off using this in your gutload.
Click to expand...
I only use the super load for crickets, my chameleon stoped eating roaches a while ago when I introduced other types of bugs.

He eats a lot of BSFL. High in calcium and I also dusted them with more calcium. Rookie mistake. I’ve backed that off now. He typically eats silk worms and crickets now. He weights 80g and is 1 year old. He always leaves bugs in his cup. Maybe he will just be a smaller chameleon?

Low hydration is interesting, his urate always looks good. Humidity is always good and he always drinks in the morning. I typically see him do it also, he isn’t a shy drinker.

My vet didn’t do anything he was very hesitant to man handle him for an xray or blood. He is 30 min drive away to and it was a struggle to get him out of his cage. He was not a happy camper and I hate to bring him back again so soon. Do you recommend doing back?
 
b.dvis15 said:
I only use the super load for crickets, my chameleon stoped eating roaches a while ago when I introduced other types of bugs.

He eats a lot of BSFL. High in calcium and I also dusted them with more calcium. Rookie mistake. I’ve backed that off now. He typically eats silk worms and crickets now. He weights 80g and is 1 year old. He always leaves bugs in his cup. Maybe he will just be a smaller chameleon?

Low hydration is interesting, his urate always looks good. Humidity is always good and he always drinks in the morning. I typically see him do it also, he isn’t a shy drinker.

My vet didn’t do anything he was very hesitant to man handle him for an xray or blood. He is 30 min drive away to and it was a struggle to get him out of his cage. He was not a happy camper and I hate to bring him back again so soon. Do you recommend doing back?
Click to expand...
I recommend doing a full husbandry review with us so we can go over every single aspect to narrow the cause down. If we can determine a potential husbandry cause then you would course correct for that and see if he gets better. If you do have to take him to a vet then you need a new vet that actually knows how to work with and treat reptiles. Sounds like yours was more afraid of doing anything which would indicate they do not have the experience needed. In the mean time add a dripper to the cage during the day. You can do this by simply using a plasic solo cup and put a few tiny pin holes in the bottom. Fill with ice cubes and set on the screen top away from lighting so that it can drip down onto the plants. This will provide a slow consistent drip. If he needs the additional hydration this will be very cheap and easy to do for him.


Fill this form out by copying and pasting it into your reply. Fill it out with as much detail as possible. Include pics of the entire enclosure including lighting on top. I would also like to see more pics of his arm from different angles and his body overall.

Chameleon Info:

  • Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
  • Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
  • Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
  • Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

  • Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
  • Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
  • Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
 
Chameleon Info:

  • Your Chameleon - Ambilobe Panther Chameleon DOB 03/03/24 weights 80g

  • Handling - maybe once a week enticing him out with a bug then putting him right back. Maybe a 3-4 minute interaction.

  • Feeding - crickets, BSFL, silkworms, treats are hornworms and super worms. He typically gets 1 medium treat bug a day. He eats 4-6 crickets then 3-4 silkworms daily. The gut load I was using also included protein so moving forward I will only use veggies and fruit until he gets better and silkworm food (obviously).

  • Supplements - supplements are listed above in the tread. I used to use a lot. I have stopped using all of them even the calcium until my Repashy supercal NoD shows up on Monday next week. Moving forward I will just use the NoD everyday and LoD 1st and 15th being cautious with my dusting.

  • Watering - misting every 4hrs throughout the night along with a fogger. No mist during the day. My guy is not a shy drinking I typically see I’m drink every morning.

  • Fecal Description - looks good, good color. Typical it’s “wet” because he poops in the morning after drinking his water. Never tested only eats store bugs and I got him from Framschams.

  • History - he just randomly stoped using his arm one day overnight. This happened the March 7th. The claw / hand can still open and close. He still has feeling in he arm. And although his movement is limited every so often I can see him use it. When I took him to the vet it was almost like the arm was fine because he was just so worried about getting away he was using it as normal. The next day it was extra swollen probably due to all the movement.
Cage Info:

  • Cage Type - 24x24x48 hybrid. (Picture above)

  • Lighting - 5% T5 UVB just replaced and at 3.0 at the top branch. Heat lamp for 4 hours. Jungle dawn plant light.

  • Temperature - 70°F - 72° during the day. Night is 65°F - 69°F using a temp gun and thermometer in the middle of cage.

  • Humidity - 40 - 60% during the day. Night time fluctuates between 70 - 99% due to the winter season with the furnace. I use the meter in the middle of the cage, one at the top and one in the ambient room.

  • Plants - live plants, mostly pothos I’ll include a picture I forgot the names but they are safe.

  • Placement - it’s on a 2 foot table, low traffic and out of direct sunlight and all vents.

  • Location - Kansas, dry winters and wet summers. Hopefully spring comes sooner than later.
Current Problem - listed above but I just want my little guy to get better. Looking for courses of actions to take. Currently I’ve upped his humidity at night the best I can, dripper 12s during the day, NO SUPPLEMENTs until my new ones show up and just veggies and fruits for gut load. I’m also on day two of Meloxicam.
 
Chameleon Info:

  • Your Chameleon - Ambilobe Panther Chameleon DOB 03/03/24 weights 80g

  • Handling - maybe once a week enticing him out with a bug then putting him right back. Maybe a 3-4 minute interaction. This is a fantastic blog on building trust. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/building-trust-with-your-chameleon.2396/

  • Feeding - crickets, BSFL, silkworms, treats are hornworms and super worms. He typically gets 1 medium treat bug a day. He eats 4-6 crickets then 3-4 silkworms daily. If he’s not eating everything, then he is telling you that it’s time to reduce his diet. Panthers are great at self-regulating. Eventually you’ll want to have him at around 3 feeders every other day, or even 3 days a week. Keep an eye on his casque and if it starts bulging up, slow down his feedings. The gut load I was using also included protein so moving forward I will only use veggies and fruit until he gets better and silkworm food (obviously). The protein gut load is really the only thing that I see that could be a potential cause of gout, which I too believe that is what it looks like he has. I wouldn’t use that anymore at all and just stick with fresh organic greens, veggies and just a little fruit. If you like the convenience of a premix, Repashy Bug Burger is good stuff and you can easily add your bee pollen to it when you make it.

  • Supplements - supplements are listed above in the tread. I used to use a lot. I have stopped using all of them even the calcium until my Repashy supercal NoD shows up on Monday next week. Moving forward I will just use the NoD everyday and LoD 1st and 15th being cautious with my dusting. Always dust with a light hand. I put a tiny amount in the bottom of a tall deli cup and add my bugs. As they move around, they dust themselves. If you accidentally overdo it, you can blow the excess off the insect (as you hold it with tongs). I do wonder about excess calcium stressing the kidneys, so that they aren’t able to properly filter out and excrete the uric acid (which is the cause of gout). I wouldn’t hold the supplements for too very long…maybe just a week or two.

  • Watering - misting every 4hrs throughout the night along with a fogger. No mist during the day. My guy is not a shy drinking I typically see I’m drink every morning. I would definitely add in some daytime drinking opportunities, like the dripper that @Beman advised. Getting some hornworms would also help to increase his hydration. You really want to hydrate him well to help flush his kidneys and help them to work optimally.

  • Fecal Description - looks good, good color. Typical it’s “wet” because he poops in the morning after drinking his water. Never tested only eats store bugs and I got him from Framschams. Even though he isn’t showing any signs and Fram’s is a great breeder, it wouldn’t be a bad idea to get a fecal test done. Store bought crickets can be a parasite risk. If there are escapees that happen to one way or another come into contact with an infected animals feces, and then manages to be put back in the store’s bin…..

  • History - he just randomly stoped using his arm one day overnight. This happened the March 7th. The claw / hand can still open and close. He still has feeling in he arm. And although his movement is limited every so often I can see him use it. When I took him to the vet it was almost like the arm was fine because he was just so worried about getting away he was using it as normal. The next day it was extra swollen probably due to all the movement. Poor guy.
Cage Info:

  • Cage Type - 24x24x48 hybrid. (Picture above) Looks good

  • Lighting - 5% T5 UVB just replaced and at 3.0 at the top branch. Heat lamp for 4 hours. Jungle dawn plant light. Sounds good

  • Temperature - 70°F - 72° during the day. Night is 65°F - 69°F using a temp gun and thermometer in the middle of cage. Ok, but what is his basking temp? Hopefully is around and not higher than 85.

  • Humidity - 40 - 60% during the day. Night time fluctuates between 70 - 99% due to the winter season with the furnace. I use the meter in the middle of the cage, one at the top and one in the ambient room. Perfect

  • Plants - live plants, mostly pothos I’ll include a picture I forgot the names but they are safe. Great

  • Placement - it’s on a 2 foot table, low traffic and out of direct sunlight and all vents. Ok

  • Location - Kansas, dry winters and wet summers. Hopefully spring comes sooner than later.
Current Problem - listed above but I just want my little guy to get better. Looking for courses of actions to take. Currently I’ve upped his humidity at night the best I can, dripper 12s during the day, NO SUPPLEMENTs until my new ones show up and just veggies and fruits for gut load. I’m also on day two of Meloxicam. Ok. The meloxicam will help with the inflammation and pain, but won’t resolve the problem if it is indeed gout as suspected. I agree that it sounds like your vet has little to no experience with chameleons. Most don’t. I’m adding our list of vets that have been found to be good with chams. Usually we do have to travel a bit, but it’s worth it for a good vet. Put your guy in a closed box and in the dark, he’ll just fall asleep and won’t wake up until you open the box. I hope I’ve been of some help, and that your beautiful guy feels and gets better. Do keep us posted on how he is. :)
 

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Update.

He is very weak and very clumsy right now. He hasn’t eaten in 2 days. He is using his front arm now. But he is really struggling getting around. His eyes don’t look sunken in but I can tell he is getting dehydrated. Also his eyes are shutting throughout the day briefly.

I ordered Arcadia Earth Pro - A. It will be here tomorrow but what good will it do if he’s not eating.

I know he needs to be drinking a ton of water but how do I accomplish that? He has a dripper doesn’t want anything to do with it and when I mist he doesn’t care.

Please any advice would be great.
 

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