I have a male ambanja panther and he has been a fantastic cham regarding all issues in health except hydration. The ONLY way that i can get liquid into him is by spraying a syringe in his mouth when he eats a cricket. I have had him for a few months and i would say he must be about 7months old. I mist his viv twice a day and in between misting i have a habba mist automatic mister spraying for 15 seconds every hour with pletny of plants etc in the viv to catch the water. I also have a waterfall at the bottom of his viv which i have NEVER even seem him near. At one point he got so dehydrated that i had to use hydro-life to revitalise him and i know that if i didnt he definately would not be here rite now. When i get home from work everyday i feed him 10-15 crickets and i have to sit there sometimes for 2-3 hours just watching him to make sure that when he goes for a cricket that i spray some water in his mouth. I have alot of time for the little fella but this regime is starting to drive me crazy. Does anyone know of ANY other methods they think could work?!?! WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED! Thanks!
Hydration Help Please!
- Thread starter Super182
- Start date
hallenhe
Avid Member
The one thing I can think of is a dripper - you can make one very simply by poking a small hole in the bottom of a plastic cup or bottle, or buy one that has a little vale to control flow. The misting is good and good for him; it should leave drops he can lap off the leaves for some time, but a dripper dripping a couple drops a minute may help catch his attention better. Also, have you every misted him directly? - I spray mine with a handheld spritzer for about five minutes each morning with warm water and, near the end of the five minutes (almost never right away) he seems to catch on that it's time for a drink - then he'll go around and lap water off the leaves, and slurp drops directly from his dripper.
Best of luck with him!
BTW, I haven't seen your setup but usually waterfalls are discouraged for fear of becoming breeding grounds for bacteria.
Best of luck with him!
BTW, I haven't seen your setup but usually waterfalls are discouraged for fear of becoming breeding grounds for bacteria.
pssh
Avid Member
What do his poops look like? How old is he? Most chameleons wont drink anything while you watch them. They're what I call closet drinkers. As long as his urates are white and not yellow or orange he is well hydrated.
Also that waterfall should be taken out. They poop in them and bugs die in them then they drink the water. ew. Unless you clean it out once a day with bleach water it isn't clean enough and even then it may not be clean enough. Chameleons have also been known to drown in very shallow water and he couldpossibly drown in it.
Also that waterfall should be taken out. They poop in them and bugs die in them then they drink the water. ew. Unless you clean it out once a day with bleach water it isn't clean enough and even then it may not be clean enough. Chameleons have also been known to drown in very shallow water and he couldpossibly drown in it.
Dave Weldon
Avid Member
Howdy,
Ok.... You asked for it... ...
(Don't worry, except for the last paragraph, I cut/pasted this from one of my old posts)
===========================================
Some of my rambling thoughts about chameleon hydration…
Being somewhat of an ARPA (Anal Retentive Painfully Analytic), I often think, re-think and re-re-think about the decisions and choices I’ve made regarding chameleon husbandry (and everything else in life). Chameleon hydration is, of course, one of those topics that I have re-hashed over and over in my mind. Am I supplying too much water leading to an unforeseen detriment to the chameleon or is “excessive” misting merely insuring maximum hydration? Most often, keepers are able to supply water via some mechanism that allows their chameleon to not only survive but to thrive. Those whose chameleons merely survived or worse yet, died of suboptimal hydration or dehydration, may have been sadly misinformed that either a couple of quick squirts a day of water on a plastic plant was enough or that only a water bowl or a waterfall was needed as an effective means of supplying water. There will always be the odd chameleon reported here and there that did learn to survive just using a water bowl as a sole source for water but those occurrences are not the norm. For every chameleon that figured out drinking from a bowl, hundreds of others didn’t and died.
Working it backwards (or is this really forwards?), a chameleon needs a source of drinking water to maintain proper hydration. The water needs to be supplied in such a way and for long enough as to be identifiable by the chameleon as drinkable water to potentially trigger a drinking response. Automated misting, hand misting, drippers, humidifiers, etc. all have their pluses and minuses towards fulfilling a chameleon’s hydration requirements. All chameleon species’ hydration requirements are not the same, so for my purposes here let’s talk about a generalized grouping of Panthers and Veileds. Environmental/body temperature along with humidity levels and water intake are probably the most dominate variables (not to let juicy hornworms and silkworms go unacknowledged) in the hydration equation. Simply put, hotter and drier means more water intake is required to balance the equation. If we fill-in the variables with, for example, 90F basking, 70F ambient, 40% humidity and daily consumption of water, this will result in a hydrated chameleon thus balancing the equation. This probably isn’t the best way of describing hydration but it does bring into the equation the issue of humidity. Even though many panther locales have high humidity it isn’t necessary to duplicate that high humidity (>70%). In Dr. Ferguson’s panther book he comments that: “Despite the high humidity of their habitat, panther chameleons do not seem to require this in captive environments as long as they have opportunity to drink daily. We have observed no low-humidity problems, such as shedding difficulties, with indoor humidity of 40 to 50%. At that humidity, transfer of airborne diseases to inhabitants of adjacent cages and skin infections have been minimal in our laboratory over the last decade.” Opposite of overly humid conditions is what many keepers face in dry winter and desert conditions where the humidity may drop to single digit levels if not artificially boosted. A chameleon’s water intake may increase in low humidity environments in an attempt to compensate for higher water losses. At some point the equation can’t be balanced by the chameleon alone and we need to intercede by artificially increasing the humidity using, most often, a humidifier or through misting.
Simple cup/bottle drippers, as a means of supplying drinking water, have been successfully used probably as long as chameleons have been kept in captivity. Most chameleons eventually recognize a dripper’s water as a drinkable source especially if the drops are cascading down nearby leaves. The movement of the leaves and the drops themselves are usually enough to trigger a drinking response. The combination of a dripper and simple hand misting (5-10-15-20 minutes) can have a greater effect than either alone at triggering a drinking response. The presence of large water droplets “misted” combined with a dripper not only more effectively triggers a drinking response but then follows it up with the longer term availability of the dripper’s water. The addition of misting has the benefit of increasing the humidity in low humidity conditions. The downside of this method is that someone needs to be there to do the hand-misting and dripper refilling. Excess water will need to be dealt with by some means of collection and disposal.
An automated misting system offers the added benefit of a long term (many days), unattended supply of drinking water and an increase in humidity levels. If a nozzle and pump are selected that create a misty-drippy effect then it can be used as effectively as the dripper/hand mister in the previous example. An ultra-fine mist alone is not as effective at chameleon hydration as a “mist” that combines larger droplets with the some lesser amount of fine mist. Also, a long-term, automated, single source dripper alone may not be as effective as a combination of automated dripping and fine misting.
In summary, although there are other effective methods for maintaining chameleon hydration, many keepers have found that using an automated misting system for 5-15-20 minutes twice a day has provided their chameleon with a source of clean, inviting drinking water thus maintaining a peak hydration level has effectively eliminated most concerns of sub-optimal hydration. Note also that it is not necessary to have an automated system that mists the entire enclosure. A dry zone may be preferred by the chameleon especially if there is little interest/need in hydration at that point in time. Also, there is room for improvement. Better methods of providing heated water as well as nozzles and pumps that do a better job of creating a combination of some mist and mostly raindrops may be appreciated by our kept chameleons.
===========================
I'll add that it is certainly not mandatory to have an automated system to keep a chameleon fully hydrated (but it sure seems to be if you are not around during the day
). I think that the typical hand, pump-up misting bottle loaded with 100-110F warmed water and the nozzle adjusted to make a misty-splattery-drippy-rainy delivery of water for many minutes, off and on, will usually eventually work to trigger a chameleon's drinking response. It may not work the very first day or even the 2nd, 3rd or 4th but it usually eventually triggers drinking. He may try to run away from the misting. Don't overly stress him. Give it a minute between trying different approaches. I suggest wetting things down, wait a minute to see what happens. Then sneak-up on the chameleon with a little wetting of the tail, back-off, wet some more farther up the tail and so-on until you are basically giving the chameleon a light shower almost continuously for many minutes. He may begin drinking during this process or not. Experiment with various methods and see if you can find something that works for your chameleon.
Pump-up misting bottles ($7 Home Depot in the USA)
Ok.... You asked for it... ...
(Don't worry, except for the last paragraph, I cut/pasted this from one of my old posts)
===========================================
Some of my rambling thoughts about chameleon hydration…
Being somewhat of an ARPA (Anal Retentive Painfully Analytic), I often think, re-think and re-re-think about the decisions and choices I’ve made regarding chameleon husbandry (and everything else in life). Chameleon hydration is, of course, one of those topics that I have re-hashed over and over in my mind. Am I supplying too much water leading to an unforeseen detriment to the chameleon or is “excessive” misting merely insuring maximum hydration? Most often, keepers are able to supply water via some mechanism that allows their chameleon to not only survive but to thrive. Those whose chameleons merely survived or worse yet, died of suboptimal hydration or dehydration, may have been sadly misinformed that either a couple of quick squirts a day of water on a plastic plant was enough or that only a water bowl or a waterfall was needed as an effective means of supplying water. There will always be the odd chameleon reported here and there that did learn to survive just using a water bowl as a sole source for water but those occurrences are not the norm. For every chameleon that figured out drinking from a bowl, hundreds of others didn’t and died.
Working it backwards (or is this really forwards?), a chameleon needs a source of drinking water to maintain proper hydration. The water needs to be supplied in such a way and for long enough as to be identifiable by the chameleon as drinkable water to potentially trigger a drinking response. Automated misting, hand misting, drippers, humidifiers, etc. all have their pluses and minuses towards fulfilling a chameleon’s hydration requirements. All chameleon species’ hydration requirements are not the same, so for my purposes here let’s talk about a generalized grouping of Panthers and Veileds. Environmental/body temperature along with humidity levels and water intake are probably the most dominate variables (not to let juicy hornworms and silkworms go unacknowledged) in the hydration equation. Simply put, hotter and drier means more water intake is required to balance the equation. If we fill-in the variables with, for example, 90F basking, 70F ambient, 40% humidity and daily consumption of water, this will result in a hydrated chameleon thus balancing the equation. This probably isn’t the best way of describing hydration but it does bring into the equation the issue of humidity. Even though many panther locales have high humidity it isn’t necessary to duplicate that high humidity (>70%). In Dr. Ferguson’s panther book he comments that: “Despite the high humidity of their habitat, panther chameleons do not seem to require this in captive environments as long as they have opportunity to drink daily. We have observed no low-humidity problems, such as shedding difficulties, with indoor humidity of 40 to 50%. At that humidity, transfer of airborne diseases to inhabitants of adjacent cages and skin infections have been minimal in our laboratory over the last decade.” Opposite of overly humid conditions is what many keepers face in dry winter and desert conditions where the humidity may drop to single digit levels if not artificially boosted. A chameleon’s water intake may increase in low humidity environments in an attempt to compensate for higher water losses. At some point the equation can’t be balanced by the chameleon alone and we need to intercede by artificially increasing the humidity using, most often, a humidifier or through misting.
Simple cup/bottle drippers, as a means of supplying drinking water, have been successfully used probably as long as chameleons have been kept in captivity. Most chameleons eventually recognize a dripper’s water as a drinkable source especially if the drops are cascading down nearby leaves. The movement of the leaves and the drops themselves are usually enough to trigger a drinking response. The combination of a dripper and simple hand misting (5-10-15-20 minutes) can have a greater effect than either alone at triggering a drinking response. The presence of large water droplets “misted” combined with a dripper not only more effectively triggers a drinking response but then follows it up with the longer term availability of the dripper’s water. The addition of misting has the benefit of increasing the humidity in low humidity conditions. The downside of this method is that someone needs to be there to do the hand-misting and dripper refilling. Excess water will need to be dealt with by some means of collection and disposal.
An automated misting system offers the added benefit of a long term (many days), unattended supply of drinking water and an increase in humidity levels. If a nozzle and pump are selected that create a misty-drippy effect then it can be used as effectively as the dripper/hand mister in the previous example. An ultra-fine mist alone is not as effective at chameleon hydration as a “mist” that combines larger droplets with the some lesser amount of fine mist. Also, a long-term, automated, single source dripper alone may not be as effective as a combination of automated dripping and fine misting.
In summary, although there are other effective methods for maintaining chameleon hydration, many keepers have found that using an automated misting system for 5-15-20 minutes twice a day has provided their chameleon with a source of clean, inviting drinking water thus maintaining a peak hydration level has effectively eliminated most concerns of sub-optimal hydration. Note also that it is not necessary to have an automated system that mists the entire enclosure. A dry zone may be preferred by the chameleon especially if there is little interest/need in hydration at that point in time. Also, there is room for improvement. Better methods of providing heated water as well as nozzles and pumps that do a better job of creating a combination of some mist and mostly raindrops may be appreciated by our kept chameleons.
===========================
I'll add that it is certainly not mandatory to have an automated system to keep a chameleon fully hydrated (but it sure seems to be if you are not around during the day
). I think that the typical hand, pump-up misting bottle loaded with 100-110F warmed water and the nozzle adjusted to make a misty-splattery-drippy-rainy delivery of water for many minutes, off and on, will usually eventually work to trigger a chameleon's drinking response. It may not work the very first day or even the 2nd, 3rd or 4th but it usually eventually triggers drinking. He may try to run away from the misting. Don't overly stress him. Give it a minute between trying different approaches. I suggest wetting things down, wait a minute to see what happens. Then sneak-up on the chameleon with a little wetting of the tail, back-off, wet some more farther up the tail and so-on until you are basically giving the chameleon a light shower almost continuously for many minutes. He may begin drinking during this process or not. Experiment with various methods and see if you can find something that works for your chameleon.Pump-up misting bottles ($7 Home Depot in the USA)
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
This risks getting liquid in his airway.
Try adding a dripper, dripping at about one drip per second, dripping constantly for an hour or so. Have the drips land on leaves and/or have the tube of the dripper end coming right into the cage such that he can lap drips directly from it.
Remove the waterfall - its not helping and could hurt
Klinger
New Member
I do all three. I have a dripper on top of cage. I have a habba mist on side of cage. Then I spray him as well.
A note on each.
Dripper....for months I did not see him drinking from this. Then I changed position to directly over a high branch. I moved it a bit so it did not trail down the branch...and wall ah! ...he actually sits under the dripper and drinks water. In fact he was drinking a few minutes ago. This allows him to really hydrate. He uses it like a faucet because he can reach the top of the cage right were the water is dripping from the dripper.
Habba mist....i have never seen him drink from it. I bought it to help raise humidity. I work 10 hour days and can only spray once a day on work days so this is my solution to that.
Spray bottle.....he used to run from it. I determined it was the size of dropplets and the sound of spray. I turned it up to make the drops bigger and I let them kind of fall on him. He drinks and stays put.
For the first 2 months of owning my panther who was 8 months old when I aquired, I did not SEE him drink once and urates were yellow. Now they are white and i SEE him drink.
Get rid of the fountain. Place a dripper above a high branch and position some leaves well below the branch. Try reajusting your spray bottle and dont count on your cham to drink from the habba mist, but you can tweek the spray from it as well and see if that works.
But i do agree you need all three for best results.
A note on each.
Dripper....for months I did not see him drinking from this. Then I changed position to directly over a high branch. I moved it a bit so it did not trail down the branch...and wall ah! ...he actually sits under the dripper and drinks water. In fact he was drinking a few minutes ago. This allows him to really hydrate. He uses it like a faucet because he can reach the top of the cage right were the water is dripping from the dripper.
Habba mist....i have never seen him drink from it. I bought it to help raise humidity. I work 10 hour days and can only spray once a day on work days so this is my solution to that.
Spray bottle.....he used to run from it. I determined it was the size of dropplets and the sound of spray. I turned it up to make the drops bigger and I let them kind of fall on him. He drinks and stays put.
For the first 2 months of owning my panther who was 8 months old when I aquired, I did not SEE him drink once and urates were yellow. Now they are white and i SEE him drink.
Get rid of the fountain. Place a dripper above a high branch and position some leaves well below the branch. Try reajusting your spray bottle and dont count on your cham to drink from the habba mist, but you can tweek the spray from it as well and see if that works.
But i do agree you need all three for best results.
pssh
Avid Member
I do not agree that you need all three. Perhaps if you have a tough chameleon then all three would be a good idea. However if you can get your chameleon to readily drink from a dripper or a pipet/syringe then you're/they're usually good. The OP hasn't said what his chameleons urates look like, so im kind of wondering if it really isn't drinking at all or if it's only drinking when he's not around. Many chameleons won't drink in front of people, but it doesn't mean they don't drink. Maybe yours won't drink from the habba mist because it doesn't really mist?
Carlton
Chameleon Enthusiast
Depending on where I've lived I have used drippers, hand sprayers, ultrasonic humidifiers, auto misting systems or combinations of them. I've found that each cham has a preference and they can be very stubborn about changing their little minds. I found drippers a pain to manage and now don't use them. What I have learned is that a healthy, well-hydrated cham who has the correct level of overall humidity simply doesn't drink a lot every day so you can easily miss it. These days here's what I do:
Check the cham:
Check urates whenever possible. If they are white, the cham is doing well. Check the cham for signs of dehydration...skin tenting, trouble shedding, sunken eyes and casque, papery skin. Offer fleshy foods like silkworms and hornworms and feed all insects a good diet of fresh greens and fruit.
Check the cage:
Keep track of the cage humidity with a quality digital gauge. It can change dramatically with season. You can sort of predict how much your cham will need to drink or how fast it will dehydrate. The more lights you use the drier it will tend to be even if the temp is OK.
Create a mini rainforest:
I really fill my cages with live plants so I can hardly find the cham. Most of them prefer this anyway. If the cage tends to be too dry I hang clear showercurtains on back and sides to hold in moisture and provide more surfaces for evaporation. Fog and/or mist using timer controlled misters or humidifiers. I don't have to be home to create cycles of wetter and drier air during the day.
Experiment with different ways to offer water. I've found I can "train" my chams to accept water pretty directly by first misting the cage foliage with warm water (not the cham) until I see the cham start reflexive swallowing and licking its lips. When they start this I slowly drip warm water on their head from above letting it run down their face. Most of them will start licking the water as it channels down their casque and face. I keep this up until the cham tips its head straight up (a sign they are getting full) and turns away from the water. Once they know what this is all about I can do this pretty quickly if I give the right "cues". I've even had a cham who would start licking water out of my cupped hand which was pretty cool.
If the cage air is dry the cham will dehydrate through respiration even if it can drink regularly. So, I use humidifiers and misters even though the cham may not drink from droplets forming on the plants. They are really used to hydrate the air, not direct drinking.
Check the cham:
Check urates whenever possible. If they are white, the cham is doing well. Check the cham for signs of dehydration...skin tenting, trouble shedding, sunken eyes and casque, papery skin. Offer fleshy foods like silkworms and hornworms and feed all insects a good diet of fresh greens and fruit.
Check the cage:
Keep track of the cage humidity with a quality digital gauge. It can change dramatically with season. You can sort of predict how much your cham will need to drink or how fast it will dehydrate. The more lights you use the drier it will tend to be even if the temp is OK.
Create a mini rainforest:
I really fill my cages with live plants so I can hardly find the cham. Most of them prefer this anyway. If the cage tends to be too dry I hang clear showercurtains on back and sides to hold in moisture and provide more surfaces for evaporation. Fog and/or mist using timer controlled misters or humidifiers. I don't have to be home to create cycles of wetter and drier air during the day.
Experiment with different ways to offer water. I've found I can "train" my chams to accept water pretty directly by first misting the cage foliage with warm water (not the cham) until I see the cham start reflexive swallowing and licking its lips. When they start this I slowly drip warm water on their head from above letting it run down their face. Most of them will start licking the water as it channels down their casque and face. I keep this up until the cham tips its head straight up (a sign they are getting full) and turns away from the water. Once they know what this is all about I can do this pretty quickly if I give the right "cues". I've even had a cham who would start licking water out of my cupped hand which was pretty cool.
If the cage air is dry the cham will dehydrate through respiration even if it can drink regularly. So, I use humidifiers and misters even though the cham may not drink from droplets forming on the plants. They are really used to hydrate the air, not direct drinking.
ericthornhill
New Member
How many days before dehydration becomes fatal?
how long can a veiled chameleon last without water?
how long can a veiled chameleon last without water?
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
Depends on its condition before it is deprived, and the environment in which it lives.
I personally would not leave my chameleons a single day without water. Because it is humid here, they are well hydrated now, their prey is very well hydrated, they are adults, the temperatures arent too high .... Im confident mine would live a few days without water if they had to. Babies probably not.
why do you ask?
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
Generally speaking, melting ice cubes are not recommened, as chameleon prefer to drink warm water, not cold water.
Chamster
New Member
i got the same 'chameleon not drinking' problem.... the last time i saw him drink was about a week ago....i mist 3 times a day sometimes 2 times...i spray the leave of the plant that he climbs on and they hold water pretty good because of the big leave it has... i dont know what going on... i dont have any dripping system but i am sure there is enough water sitting on the leave at any given time.....
any ideas???????
any ideas???????
pssh
Avid Member
A lot of chameleons dnt like to drink in front if people. If his urates are white then he is drinkng just fine (though you might not be watching when he does) I just saw my female panther licking a leaf for the first time a week ago, though she will drink from a pipet occationally. But she is perfectly hydrated even after having her for more than a month and only seeing her drink a handful of times.
Chamster
New Member
is that you in the avatar????
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