Identify small lumps

[GrimCamel]

I'm just making this quick post from my phone while Im on my way to the vet with a corn snake where I will take the chance and ask about these pictures of 2 pimple like lumps on my panther. My perspective of time sucks but I would say they been there about 2 months. I didnt start to worry until I spotted the second one and Ive been observing them closely ever since. As soon as I saw the second I asked for identification in a fb group which didnt help much. Someone said cancer and another one pointed out that their cham has had the same but that they disappeared.
My own guess is fungal infection so I googled it but I only get extreme cases from ppl who doesnt seek help until its severe
I cleared up some my ventilation by moving my moss to get back the intended airflow. Maybe I should buy a computerfan for him? Advice?
Anyway, ive been waiting for him to go into shed to see what happens to these lumps and if it stays the same Ill take him to a vet. He is really not in a hurry to shed tho which makes me nervous. He has been looking like he is about to go into shed any moment for a while now.
Would be nice to at least have these things identified and know if its a "vet asap" case or not. Since I dont trust reptile vets 100% with chameleons I would like to hear what you guys have to say about these pictures since I value the opinion of the experienced keepers on this forum

So what do you think? Fungal infection? Vet asap? Anything I can do to aid him?

 

[nightanole]

Looks like the papilloma virus or "pox" based on past experience. Since its a virus there is no "medicine". You are going to have to treat it like an infected wound. So disinfect(not anti bacterial) 1-2 times a day and if you can remove the scabs, that can help the disinfectant really get deep.

 

[GrimCamel]

The vet didn't say much but I probably didnt speak to someone used to chameleons. They suggested me to come once he shed if it still looks the same.

Thanks nightanole, I will do some research on this once Im home. If someone else can confirm it is this virus as well that would be great

 

[jajeanpierre]

@GrimCamel The question to investigate or not depends on a lot of things. To my lay eyes, it looks like something that is not curable and is contagious.

How big is your collection and how valuable is it? If you have an important collection, I would have him in to the vet and pathology done on the lesions. If not treatable and contagious I would euthanize to protect the rest of my collection and talk to the vet about what needs to be done to protect your collection.

If you only have one or two pet animals, it doesn't really matter that much if they also become infected with something like a papilloma virus. Remember, warts in people are a kind of papilloma virus.

 

[jajeanpierre]

The vet didn't say much but I probably didnt speak to someone used to chameleons. They suggested me to come once he shed if it still looks the same.

Thanks nightanole, I will do some research on this once Im home. If someone else can confirm it is this virus as well that would be great

No one on this forum can confirm what exactly that skin lesion is by looking at photos. If you want a definitive answer, you need to have a biopsy done and send it off for pathology. There is no other way around it although an experienced reptile vet could probably give you a good opinion.

Skin lesions are really tricky to diagnose and you have very little chance of getting it right when you are using a vet with no reptile experience.

 

[GrimCamel]

This sounds very concerning... Incubus is my only reptile so I wonder how he would have contacted this and it was not to be seen back in 2015 when I bought him. Can this be carried by insects? Thats the only thing I can think of if not me or other pets that I handle

 

[Carlton]

We are seeing so much more of this in panthers and other species over time. I'm sure it is being spread through breeding colonies but if those breeders are not informed or bothering to isolate infected animals its going to become even more of a problem in our captive population. Are there any attempts to notify producers of infected chams? If not, there should be!!!!

 

[JacksJill]

This is a thread with images that may be of help. https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/zippy-has-the-papilloma-virus.141395/
It came from this thread. https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/need-help_papiloma-virus-or-mildew.154658/#post-1319252
Maybe you can find out if their treatment was effective if it is papilloma virus. Just for information in case.
Hope it sheds off and is nothing.

 

[GrimCamel]

Jesus those pictures looks horrifying.. I feel so upset, sad and scared now but I am truly thankful for the responses I received. If he doesn't go into shed soon Ill probably take him to the vet anyway tho have a biopsy done. I really hope it isnt this virus. I was looking forward to expanding my collection in the future. I feel devastated. At least it seems that this virus isnt causing him any pain which I am thankful for.

And Carlton, if it turns out the biopsy show that he truly got the virus I wont hesitate to contact the breeder I bought him from if not sooner. It worries me that Incubus might have contracted the virus already that long cause there aren't many chameleon breeders in Sweden (maybe 2 that I know of??), the hobby is very small and most clutches seems to come from hobbyists

 

[JacksJill]

I didn't mean to panic you I just believe information is a powerful weapon to have. Fungus or injury are also possible explanations. Sadly biopsy is the best way to get a diagnosis. If it sheds out then all the better. Fingers crossed.

 

[GrimCamel]

I have now sent away an e-mail to the vet asking for advice and info prior to my visit. I really hope they have knowledge about this virus so I can get an appointment next week if possible

 

[GrimCamel]

So yeah I went to the vet today to have these things checked but unfortunately there was no biopsy to be done since the virus havent been confirmed in any reptile here in Sweden. There is simply no one that could test him for papilloma here. I could still get another appointment for a biopsy but only if I or they can come in contact with some place that can test his sample for papilloma which would probably mean sending his samples to the USA...If I know where to. I know @ferretinmyshoes have done these tests for one of their veilds and maybe they have info where to send such samples? I am really sorry for my vague English here.

Incubus and his vet. I think they have some kind of hate-love relationship going on there. Beside from not being able to do the biopsy he looked closer to Incubus' so called pimples, opened the bigger one up with some for of needle to find a harder core what he described as a "pearl" (roughly translated) that easily dropped out. Other than that he said he didn't think it is papilloma but his references was for other species such as birds since again, it have not been seen in Sweden.

 

[Miss Lily]

Zippy, the chameleon in one of the above links was mine. His lump grew on the top if his head between his eyes. My vet wouldn't remove it due to its location and the fact that there is no loose skin on that part of the body to stretch over the resulting wound.

 

[JacksJill]

I hope that removing the "pearl" helps him and he can heal.

 

[GrimCamel]

Yeah that was what the vet said and I hope he is right!

 

[jajeanpierre]

So yeah I went to the vet today to have these things checked but unfortunately there was no biopsy to be done since the virus havent been confirmed in any reptile here in Sweden. There is simply no one that could test him for papilloma here. I could still get another appointment for a biopsy but only if I or they can come in contact with some place that can test his sample for papilloma which would probably mean sending his samples to the USA...I

I just saw this and wanted to comment about your reference to sending a sample to the US. Just so you know, you would need a CITES permit from Sweden to send samples, even a tiny bit of tissue, CITES applies. It makes the people working in countries other than Europe or North America crazy. When I had blood samples of parrots sent to the US from Saudi Arabia, they were accompanied by an avian vet's letter declaring it was Gallus gallus domesticus (barnyard chicken) blood. All the falcon tissue samples miraculously became chicken samples.

Trust me, US Fish and Wildlife will go crazy if you send in a sample from a panther or any other CITES controlled animal without CITES paperwork, which isn't all that easy to get. I know from experience. I once sent blood to be tested and got the appropriate Department of Agriculture permits but the lab didn't tell me I needed CITES permits. Well, US Fish and Wildlife went insane and slapped the lab with a $4000 fine and went crazy on my husband (the shipper). Your vet might be prepared to ship it as some sort of tissue from a non-CITES species of reptile.

 

[Nursemaia]

Thuja oil is an effective homeopathic treatment for the papilloma virus. I've had several dogs with warts, I didn't want to put them under anesthesia to have them removed due to their age and I treated them with the Thuja oil. Just put it on the wart and it shrinks within days. I don't know if it is safe for reptiles

 

[GrimCamel]

I just saw this and wanted to comment about your reference to sending a sample to the US. Just so you know, you would need a CITES permit from Sweden to send samples, even a tiny bit of tissue, CITES applies. It makes the people working in countries other than Europe or North America crazy. When I had blood samples of parrots sent to the US from Saudi Arabia, they were accompanied by an avian vet's letter declaring it was Gallus gallus domesticus (barnyard chicken) blood. All the falcon tissue samples miraculously became chicken samples.

Trust me, US Fish and Wildlife will go crazy if you send in a sample from a panther or any other CITES controlled animal without CITES paperwork, which isn't all that easy to get. I know from experience. I once sent blood to be tested and got the appropriate Department of Agriculture permits but the lab didn't tell me I needed CITES permits. Well, US Fish and Wildlife went insane and slapped the lab with a $4000 fine and went crazy on my husband (the shipper). Your vet might be prepared to ship it as some sort of tissue from a non-CITES species of reptile.

Yeah I was hoping my vet would have those things under control, I was only asked to find out where they do these tests so I wont be sending anything by myself, everything will go through him. But I could ask about these things if I will be able to drive this forward

Thuja oil is an effective homeopathic treatment for the papilloma virus. I've had several dogs with warts, I didn't want to put them under anesthesia to have them removed due to their age and I treated them with the Thuja oil. Just put it on the wart and it shrinks within days. I don't know if it is safe for reptiles

I personally wouldnt trust to use something meant to work good on mammals for reptiles w/o some kind of research. I don't feel like experiment on my animal

 

[jajeanpierre]

b

Yeah I was hoping my vet would have those things under control, I was only asked to find out where they do these tests so I wont be sending anything by myself, everything will go through him. But I could ask about these things if I will be able to drive this forward

He might be a vet, but that doesn't mean he is aware of international law on the transport of endangered species and parts of endangered species across state lines.

I'm surprised that he wouldn't know where to send the sample. Try a veterinary university in your country. You might be surprised at how easy it is to contact researchers at universities and how happy they are to discuss something like this with you. I've spent hours speaking to one of the world's leading equine cardiologists over a problem I had with a horse he never once saw.

Start by calling a veterinary hospital and asking who is the professor of reptile veterinary medicine then call or send off an email explaining your problem in a paragraph or two--unknown skin lesion, vet doesn't know where to send biopsy, etc. See what happens. Try the department that deals with skin disease. Someone will eventually tell you who you need to be talking to.

Good luck.

 

[GrimCamel]

b


He might be a vet, but that doesn't mean he is aware of international law on the transport of endangered species and parts of endangered species across state lines.

I'm surprised that he wouldn't know where to send the sample. Try a veterinary university in your country. You might be surprised at how easy it is to contact researchers at universities and how happy they are to discuss something like this with you. I've spent hours speaking to one of the world's leading equine cardiologists over a problem I had with a horse he never once saw.

Start by calling a veterinary hospital and asking who is the professor of reptile veterinary medicine then call or send off an email explaining your problem in a paragraph or two--unknown skin lesion, vet doesn't know where to send biopsy, etc. See what happens. Try the department that deals with skin disease. Someone will eventually tell you who you need to be talking to.

Good luck.

The vet I visited was their top exotic vet, he handles the exotics in different zoos etc and he mentioned that no body in Sweden was researching papilloma in reptiles since it haven't been seen before. I think my country is a dead end tbh but I could look deeper into things.