introducing chams to america

[nightcrawler]

i heard the stories of Hawaii and i read today on ccic that some are in Florida and Cali. is this true? florida and cali have wild chams?
now i wonder a lot about introducing them into the wild. it would be great to get them to be actually survive in America on the mainland and go out one day herping and find a bunch or one depending on things.
is it ethically or morally wrong to introduce chams into the wild of America? would it cause more problems then good? i believe it is illegal but i often pondered the idea of doing this.
any ideas on this or first hand experience with seeing wild chams?

 

[Justin Carl]

well i live in cenral florida, and i havent seen one ever! it may be florida, but it gets way to cold in Jan and Feb. i know further down south their are a ton of iguanas. i see them basking along the highway in the morning. lol i have read their are wild veileds in Hawaii.

 

[nightcrawler]

i never heard of the veileds in Hawaii i heard of jacksons tho.
here is the link for the information i read. it was really interesting.
http://www.chamaeleonidae.com/range.html

 

[Justin Carl]

haha i wouldnt doubt that chameleons live here. the only thing that get me is the city wipes out the insect population. in the summer they spray weekly. i live in brevard county....a hundred years ago it was mosquito county. lol

 

[nightcrawler]

yea its too cold for lizards to live near chicago. we get salamanders tho. is it wrong to introduce them into the wild tho? that is the big question.

 

[Justin Carl]

oh yea any non native species is a pest. remember that big thing with the snakefish up in new england. they eat and take over everything. that is one in a thousand examples.

 

[dodolah]

whenever you introduce a new animal into a preexisting ecosystem, you will most likely ruin the balance. Do you remember the incident with toads that are introduced into Australia?

So, yes, it's ethically and morally wrong.

 

[nightcrawler]

i get snake fish by me. people hunt them with bows and stuff. its funny you say that i watched a thing on them last week.

 

[Ashley]

....maybe

Just for the sake of answering the question I don't think it is wrong to introduce them to the wild, but only if the place where they are to be living or may wander off to is suitable by hobbyists standards.

i.e. Temp. (24 hours/day 365 days/)
Amount of rain
Food populus (whether or not pesticides are used in the area)
....etcetera


I doubt there are many places other than where they are native to that can meet these requirements without intervention from people.

 

[dodolah]

you are looking at it from a very narrow point.
For example, veiled chameleon is considered a pest in Hawaii..
As they end up eating certain species of local birds. and since veiled do not have a natural predator readily available in Hawaii, they can thrive there and in the end obliterating a certain species of bird.

When the balance of ecosystem is ruined, everybody who lived there will negatively affected.

 

[Ashley]

That's a very good point. I think, technically, they could be introduced, but I am not saying that I think they should be. I think it's a very strange concept that they are a pest.... Something that many of us spend our hard earned dollars and countless hours of our lives enjoying and loving. Point well made dodolah.

 

[Justin Carl]

did you guys see that picture on this site with the veiled and hummingbird in its mouth

 

[Ashley]

Nope, missed that one. I don't think I want to see it though... I like hummingbirds. I have to shoo them away when my guys are outside. They just look yummy to them I guess.

Have you had that happen before?

 

[Justin Carl]

no, i do have the picture tho. i saved it. lol

 

[spinz4]

Ive never heard of veilds here in Hawaii but we do have Jacksons. I caught mine wild and same with a friend of mine.

 

[nightcrawler]

i have not. can you post the link? but yes very good point indeed. i would like to have them introduced but it would be wrong so it shouldent be done. i cant every concider them a pest in my opinion but on the government scale they could. are the iguanas in florida native or pests?

 

[Justin Carl]

you lucky lol

 

[nightcrawler]

Ive never heard of veilds here in Hawaii but we do have Jacksons. I caught mine wild and same with a friend of mine.

yea i havent heard the veiled thing but i have heard that a lot of people dont mind the jacksons. what are their effect on the wildlife in your area?

 

[Chris Anderson]

To answer your first question, yes, there are introduced, established populations of chameleons in Hawaii (Ch. jacksonii xantholophus & Ch. calyptratus), California (Ch. j. xantholophus) and Florida (Ch. j. xantholophus & Ch. calyptratus).

As for the rest of your questions, the release of any nonnative animal is completely illegal and dangerous to the local ecosystem. There are hundreds of examples where introduced species have been highly damaging to local ecosystems and while there are plenty where no obvious negative impacts have been shown, the risk is simply too great and some degree of competition with native species is inevitable. While I doubt a chameleon would directly cause an extinction or heavily throw off the balance of local ecosystems, it could in theory happen depending on the fragility of the ecosystem and its balance. They are trying to eliminate the introduced veiled chameleon population in Hawaii because of fears they could predate local, endangered bird species which are already suffering from loss of habitat and pressure from other introduced species. Stemming from concern over establishment of introduced species, many states have banned many species to prevent careless keepers from releasing them into local habitats (for example, it is now illegal to sell red-eared sliders in Florida for this reason). There really isn't any real positive to doing this.

Chris

 

[Justin Carl]

here ya go