Is a Cham right for me?

[PantherChamNoob]

Hello all on ChameleonFourms, and as you can see I am new here

For the past week or so I have been looking into possibly getting a chameleon, preferably a Panther. I have zip reptile experience, but I believe I would be up to the challenge as I currently have a 120 gallon saltwater reef aquarium that's been running for 3 years, and a 75 gallon planted freshwater aquarium that's been running for 4 years. We also have a dog and two cats as more of the "family pets". I am very dedicated to the health of my animals and give them the best of the best if at all possible. Even though I know chameleons aren't considered the best first reptile, I believe I could do it with plenty of research and preparation.

Since I am not very familiar with Chams I would like to know just how much time they take just for the everyday things? I would also like to know how long it takes to clean there enclosures if the setup is simple and easy?

I think I will leave it at that for now. At this point I am not sure if I will get a Cham, but I decided that I would like to know a few bits of information that I can only get from people with experience before making a decision. Thanks again and I look forward to meeting you all

 

[ahood]

Hello! I'm a new chameleon owner and am loving it. If you're dedicated to your animals, I'm sure you will be more than capable of caring for a chameleon as long as you do your research and get everything you need. As far as how much time per day the caring tasks take- besides just spending time with them- the necessary things only take me about 10 min a day, but of course you'll want to spend hours because they're so cool lol. And cleaning their cages are very easy! Panther chameleons are best in screen cages and all you have to do is change out the newspaper at the bottom of the cage every week or so, wipe out the bottom of you like, and wash any dishes in the enclosure. Cleaning is minimum and very easy. Be sure to read read read and do lots of research and ask questions so that you make sure you have the best set up and tools to get you started to ensure the health of your new friend if you decide to get one. Good luck!

 

[DragoLikesReptiles]

I agree with ahood, if you are responsible enough to be ready for vet bills (big ones, too) and lots of attention. You should be set. You have to know all equipment for a chameleon, humidity, temperatures, supplements, foods, gutloading feeders, handling, and other things you want to do with them (like hand feeding or breeding). All that said, chameleons aren't what most people say they are. They love people and social (not with other chameleons though!), and are the most rewarding and fun reptile out there! Supplies are the hardest element of a chameleon's care aspect to perfect, so research about the supplies as well as care. My reptiles are the best friends I've ever had! (forever alone lol)

 

[Craigwyatt]

You are def interested in the right species (panther) if your a noob. They are extremely hardy and extremely rewarding to work with. Chameleons are unlike any other lizard they will not drink out of a water dish. So the majority of the time you will spend with them everyday will be you spraying them. I say 3 times a day is sufficient. About 10 mins a session. But more is always ok. Or you could buy a misting system. They are costly but they cut out a lot of the work.
A well cared for panther that gets lots of attention usually wants to come out of the cage. You will know your doing a good job if you put your hand in the cage and he/she is always trying to climb on you. (This is not the case 100% of the time though) some just seem to not like people no matter how you treat them.

I love my panthers to death and I'm sure if you get one you will feel the same way. Bottom line you will need at the very least 30 mins a day for a single chameleon. And go all out on the cage. The right husbandry combined with a great cage equals a happy healthy chameleon.
Good luck. Hope this helps.

 

[Carlton]

All that said, chameleons aren't what most people say they are. They love people and social (not with other chameleons though!),

I have to disagree with you here. SOME chams are a lot more social than others and it is pretty hard to predict which will turn out that way, even with panthers. I would not say any cham "loves" people. They are not wired to love social interactions in the same way we are. Its important to interpret their behavior correctly so you don't unintentionally put them in a bad situation. I would say that some are much more responsive and comfortable with attention than others. If you force a naturally shy or reactive cham to accept too much interaction it will eventually stress it into illness. The important thing is to learn your particular cham's likes and dislikes and to respect them.

All that being said, if a newbie does a good job reading our resources information, learns about how to interpret the cham's "language" and signs of illness (and has an experience vet on board just in case), and gets a setup and supplies ready ahead of time, figures out the little tweaks to their daily schedule a cham will create, there's no reason you can't do fine with a healthy cbb panther.

 

[DragoLikesReptiles]

Yeah, I know that. I totally just forgot to put that part in. My panther just loves everyone.

 

[Alextravis]

Go for it. I started with Jackson's and they were great. Whether it is a panther or not, chameleons usually don't like being messes with. As long as you have proper heating, lighting, and misting requirements all that's left is feeding them right (dusting), keeping everything clean and watching them. People will tell you that chameleons are very hard to take care of but if you have a well started juvenile and give it everything it needs it is a peice of cake. I have everything running on timers so I just feed them before I go to work and clean everything as much as I can. Great animals just be prepared to have a pet that does not want to be touched a lot.

 

[PantherChamNoob]

Hello! I'm a new chameleon owner and am loving it. If you're dedicated to your animals, I'm sure you will be more than capable of caring for a chameleon as long as you do your research and get everything you need. As far as how much time per day the caring tasks take- besides just spending time with them- the necessary things only take me about 10 min a day, but of course you'll want to spend hours because they're so cool lol. And cleaning their cages are very easy! Panther chameleons are best in screen cages and all you have to do is change out the newspaper at the bottom of the cage every week or so, wipe out the bottom of you like, and wash any dishes in the enclosure. Cleaning is minimum and very easy. Be sure to read read read and do lots of research and ask questions so that you make sure you have the best set up and tools to get you started to ensure the health of your new friend if you decide to get one. Good luck!

Sounds easy enough. I just wanted to know how long on average it takes for the daily things because sometimes it's the little things that grind me down at times. So if you clean the enclosure every week how long do you think it would take? This is important to me as well because cleaning my aquariums vary for the amount I have to clean. It can vary from 2 hours to 5 hours depending on how deep of a cleaning I do. And I really don't want anymore of that! Oh and good luck with you new Panther

I agree with ahood, if you are responsible enough to be ready for vet bills (big ones, too) and lots of attention. You should be set. You have to know all equipment for a chameleon, humidity, temperatures, supplements, foods, gutloading feeders, handling, and other things you want to do with them (like hand feeding or breeding). All that said, chameleons aren't what most people say they are. They love people and social (not with other chameleons though!), and are the most rewarding and fun reptile out there! Supplies are the hardest element of a chameleon's care aspect to perfect, so research about the supplies as well as care. My reptiles are the best friends I've ever had! (forever alone lol)

Oh I never ever get an animal without doing TONS of research first! I want to make sure I do it right the first time and for them to be healthy and happy. A vet that can work with reptiles might be just a little hard to find in my area though. I have never had a reptile before so I have never had a reason to look, but if I did enough searching around I bet I could find one.

You are def interested in the right species (panther) if your a noob. They are extremely hardy and extremely rewarding to work with. Chameleons are unlike any other lizard they will not drink out of a water dish. So the majority of the time you will spend with them everyday will be you spraying them. I say 3 times a day is sufficient. About 10 mins a session. But more is always ok. Or you could buy a misting system. They are costly but they cut out a lot of the work.
A well cared for panther that gets lots of attention usually wants to come out of the cage. You will know your doing a good job if you put your hand in the cage and he/she is always trying to climb on you. (This is not the case 100% of the time though) some just seem to not like people no matter how you treat them.

I love my panthers to death and I'm sure if you get one you will feel the same way. Bottom line you will need at the very least 30 mins a day for a single chameleon. And go all out on the cage. The right husbandry combined with a great cage equals a happy healthy chameleon.
Good luck. Hope this helps.

I made sure that before I got all excited about a chameleon that I looked into the easiest species. I didn't want to get my heart set on one and then realize that it's a difficult species to keep.

I have heard of the water thing. I think I would prefer a misting system over spraying myself as it means less work I have to do on my part. I now there is many other things I need to research on before I get a cham though.

I have to disagree with you here. SOME chams are a lot more social than others and it is pretty hard to predict which will turn out that way, even with panthers. I would not say any cham "loves" people. They are not wired to love social interactions in the same way we are. Its important to interpret their behavior correctly so you don't unintentionally put them in a bad situation. I would say that some are much more responsive and comfortable with attention than others. If you force a naturally shy or reactive cham to accept too much interaction it will eventually stress it into illness. The important thing is to learn your particular cham's likes and dislikes and to respect them.

All that being said, if a newbie does a good job reading our resources information, learns about how to interpret the cham's "language" and signs of illness (and has an experience vet on board just in case), and gets a setup and supplies ready ahead of time, figures out the little tweaks to their daily schedule a cham will create, there's no reason you can't do fine with a healthy cbb panther.

+1 to that, even though I don't have experience and what I know is all from reading lol.

Thankfully I am a person that doesn't need to have lots of physical contact with my animals. As long as I can hold it at least a little I am good. If it didn't want to climb on me I wouldn't ever force it upon the cham.

 

[PantherChamNoob]

Go for it. I started with Jackson's and they were great. Whether it is a panther or not, chameleons usually don't like being messes with. As long as you have proper heating, lighting, and misting requirements all that's left is feeding them right (dusting), keeping everything clean and watching them. People will tell you that chameleons are very hard to take care of but if you have a well started juvenile and give it everything it needs it is a peice of cake. I have everything running on timers so I just feed them before I go to work and clean everything as much as I can. Great animals just be prepared to have a pet that does not want to be touched a lot.

Whoops, I missed this one. If I get a cham then I will definitely be prepared for it. I don't get pets unless I do lots of research. Well I have fish (fresh and salt) as my personal pets, so I am used to animals that you don't touch. The rest of my family takes care of the dog and cats mostly. The only thing with a chameleon is that I am trying to decided if I really want another pet to care for. I don't want to over extended myself as my fish at times are hard enough. Of course that decision is entirely up to me. That's kind of why I am asking questions more along the lines of how hard are they to care for, or how much time of your day do they take. I just want to make sure I am ready for one. But hey, that's why I joined the forum so I could get a real sense of how much work it will take for proper care of these beautiful animals.

I guess I will ask another question. How often do you feed chameleons? I know some pets you feed every day (dogs, cats), while others don't need to fed every day or you feed very little (fish, snake) so I am wondering where chameleons fall.

 

[OldChamKeeper]

...................................

 

[maya2]

Ultimately, you know yourself better than anyone on the forums so you will know for sure if you have the time, energy, and passion for a chameleon.
I spend a significant amount of daily time on my chams and their enclosures but it never feels like a chore. I love it.
Even with tons of reading, you will find yourself at many crossroads and have many questions. It is a big commitment.

Like Carlton stated, you have to learn their "language" and he hit the nail on the head, it is just like learning a language. The good news is that these forums offer some of the best resources and most helpful people available.

Since you're still considering it, I'm going to link this sites care resources.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/chameleons/

Read every article on there. Intro, Enclosures, Lighting, Caresheets, all of it.
Write down everything you will need to get started, find out where you can buy them and list the prices. Draw up how you would like your enclosure to look, keeping in mind that chameleons need to be able to climb the length of the cage, enough space from the heat lamp so they're not burned, temperature gradient, etc.

Here's a link to help find a herp vet:
http://www.herpvetconnection.com/
You should also go through the Health Clinic so you know what types of injuries/issues to expect.

Plan how you're going to fit everything in your home. Enclosures, cricket bin, extra supplies, outlet timers, mist reservoir (if you choose a mist system) etc.
Then wait a few weeks-month to get finances in order and really decide if chameleon husbandry would stay fulfilling to you in the long haul (hall?) even if your chameleon ends up "hating" you.
It is very important that the chameleons life in your care is comfortable and happy, and sometimes a happy cham is a shy cham.

 

[xraygirl]

It all depends on how much research you put into it. If you're that dedicated to your other critters, I'm sure you'll do fine with chameleons with proper research. However, after just a week I would keep researching hard core for at least another month or two. I read every stinkin' thread on this forum for 3 months before I ever acquired a cham. I have never had reptiles before, but if you have enough heart and the desire to learn (and keep learning), these guys will be an absolute joy to have. I got my first panther November 2013 (he was about 8 months old, I didn't want to get a baby as my first) and he was a consignment deal who needed some TLC. I've had that little ham for a year and a few months and I just LOVE him to bit! I see him last before leaving for work and he's the first I see when I get home from work! I just got another new guy who was a craigslist 'rehome' deal, I have no idea how old he is, but he's definitely a little crazy! But that's probably due to how he was handled. However, if he doesn't ever 'chill' out like my other panther, I won't be disappointed. I've given two chams homes, and that's all that matters to me.
It all depends on how much you put into it. I work full time, 40-50 hours a week, and I'll be going to school full time here soon (and work very little, if at all) here soon. If I can manage it, you can too. I try to pop on the forums once a week or so to check in and see what new threads are up (usually have like 1300+ new ones, lmao)
But seriously, research until you're not finding anything really "new" anymore. But your stuff, and get the GOOD quality stuff (like a MistKing or an AquaZamp mister/dripper versus a Monsoon, etc). Find out what kind of a cham is right for you, a baby, juvenile, or an adult. Also find our what your budget is, how much room do you have for a nice set up and maybe a free range, etc. I attached a pic of my spreadsheet for a simple breakdown, for two adult panthers, the actual cost fluctuates depending on several factors, like if I bought silkworms, who I got the best price on hornworms, etc...

Good luck to you in your search for your new addiction

 

[PantherChamNoob]

Thanks for all the info guys. I will be sure to read those links you posted maya. I think though, that I may hold off on a Chameleon for now. I just don't want too many pets, and I don't think I am dedicated enough yet. I am more than likely going to be breaking down my 75 gallon freshwater though since I don't really ever look at it and at this point it just adds extra work for me. After I tear it down, then I might be more interested since I will would
have less fish to care for and possibly more time for other critters. I still would like a chameleon, but it has to be the right time and I don't think now is that time. I will probably still hang in the background of the forums until I decide on what to do and I will definitely read those links if for nothing more than to learn something. Who knows, maybe you will see me pop up again soon saying I am ready for a new addition

BTW, I thought I would say that first impressions of the forum are highly positive. Everyone is so friendly and that really makes a forum more inviting. Keep up the good work and enjoy your chams! If I have any random questions on the links I will be sure to let you guys know.

 

[cmk]

Sounds easy enough. I just wanted to know how long on average it takes for the daily things because sometimes it's the little things that grind me down at times. So if you clean the enclosure every week how long do you think it would take? This is important to me as well because cleaning my aquariums vary for the amount I have to clean. It can vary from 2 hours to 5 hours depending on how deep of a cleaning I do.

This caught my attention. I feel the "daily things" add up to maybe a full hour each day. Also dont forget they eat only living things and keeping a good fresh supply on hand is really important. I get 50 crickets a week every monday. Also cleaning the cricket cage to keep the smell down. The mistings are very important, along with spot checking for poo. Every other week i take the plants out and wash the leaves, lots of poo there. And also clean the climbing structures of urates and more poo. All in all if you have loads of livestock in that salt tank you know the care it takes to keep it up on a daily. All that time can go into one full size male with a full size cage if not more each day. If youre not ready that can grind you down.

 

[PantherChamNoob]

The feeling of being grinded down happens to me sometimes with my fish, minus the not being ready part. It's just the regularity you have to do things (feedings, cleanings, etc.) I think that I don't like as much. Well, that and the fact that at one point I went too fast and had too many aquariums and I burnt myself out. It's a shame I did that with my hobby because I still have burnouts happen to me sometimes ranging in duration from a few hours to a month depending on how bad it is. I carry on though and make it through and in the end I still have my babies (aka, fish ). I do love interacting with animals and looking/enjoying them though and that's in part why I am so dedicated to mine.

Anyway, I know I said I may not be ready for a chameleon yet, but there is something about them that keeps bringing me back. So until I am ready I will keep researching and asking questions. I was laying in bed last night and thought, "Why not put a chameleon in my 75 gallon aquarium?". I know chameleons need airflow all around them so I know the challenges this would possibly present. But what if you had some small, gentle fans or something that would circulate air around the tank? Of course I would keep them out of reach of the cham so he wouldn't get hurt. I would also let the tank be open topped so the plants could grow tall and he could extend past the aquarium walls (safely of course). Is this possible? Of course the fans would need to be strong enough to provide air flow, but gentle enough to not chill the chameleon.

 

[maya2]

Unfortunately, this would not be a good home for a panther chameleon. Not just because of airflow but also because they need vertical space and it would be very hard to keep clean with all the water that collects from misting/dripping water.
Please read this sites article about Enclosures:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/enclosures/

It's not a good idea to get a chameleon for a specific enclosure, but get a specific enclosure for a chameleon


Now, I will say that pygmy chameleons can live in a horizontal space, and many keepers do use aquariums. However, I don't think I've seen one quite that big. I don't know very much about pygmy chameleons though. I would suggest finding someone on the forums who does know and asking for advice.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/pygmy-enclosures/

https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/pygmy/

 

[Carlton]

The feeling of being grinded down happens to me sometimes with my fish, minus the not being ready part. It's just the regularity you have to do things (feedings, cleanings, etc.) I think that I don't like as much. Well, that and the fact that at one point I went too fast and had too many aquariums and I burnt myself out. It's a shame I did that with my hobby because I still have burnouts happen to me sometimes ranging in duration from a few hours to a month depending on how bad it is. I carry on though and make it through and in the end I still have my babies (aka, fish ). I do love interacting with animals and looking/enjoying them though and that's in part why I am so dedicated to mine.

Anyway, I know I said I may not be ready for a chameleon yet, but there is something about them that keeps bringing me back. So until I am ready I will keep researching and asking questions. I was laying in bed last night and thought, "Why not put a chameleon in my 75 gallon aquarium?". I know chameleons need airflow all around them so I know the challenges this would possibly present. But what if you had some small, gentle fans or something that would circulate air around the tank? Of course I would keep them out of reach of the cham so he wouldn't get hurt. I would also let the tank be open topped so the plants could grow tall and he could extend past the aquarium walls (safely of course). Is this possible? Of course the fans would need to be strong enough to provide air flow, but gentle enough to not chill the chameleon.

Most likely the dimensions and orientation of your 75 wouldn't suit a panther very well. Many aquariums are just not the right "shape" (long and narrow but not very tall). As you described, leaving the top open for plant growth would sort of eliminate the tank as usable space anyway. The cham will want to spend most of its time at the top of the plants, not down in the tank. You can create a much better living space without the tank...even a large potted tree with lights hung overhead can be used as a "free range" in the right location in your house.

 

[PantherChamNoob]

Ok scratch that idea then. I thought maybe I could somehow extend the plants past the aquarium walls, but I didn't really take into account the fact that it would be hard to clean.

I read those links that maya provided and it was all some very good info. The only thing I really have to read now is the FAQ's. I will probably read it again here soon. A few things caught my eye though. One thing was in the Health and Illness section. It said that chams should always be standing on their perches and not laying down. Does that mean that they don't lay on a branch to rest a little, or are they built to be constantly standing? Another thing I read was in the Breeding section. It said that if you breed chams then you put the eggs in a container with the lid closed. I find this weird as I would think the eggs would need oxygen. It I just thought that interesting because I might be interested in breeding panthers if I got into them that much.

I also found a vet in my area so no need to worry about that

 

[Carlton]

A few things caught my eye though. One thing was in the Health and Illness section. It said that chams should always be standing on their perches and not laying down. Does that mean that they don't lay on a branch to rest a little, or are they built to be constantly standing? Another thing I read was in the Breeding section. It said that if you breed chams then you put the eggs in a container with the lid closed. I find this weird as I would think the eggs would need oxygen. It I just thought that interesting because I might be interested in breeding panthers if I got into them that much.

I also found a vet in my area so no need to worry about that

When a cham is awake during the day, it should not be lying flat along a perch most of the time. If it happens to be resting for a short period OK (they don't rest much while awake), but not in general. A cham that doesn't have the muscle tone to hold itself on its legs is suffering from MBD or other issues. Their spine will also look sort of "collapsed" rather than arched and firm.

I think the egg container has vents cut in the lid.

 

[PantherChamNoob]

Interesting. You learn something new everyday.

Ok well I think from here on out will be mostly just reading a bunch of things so I can prepare myself for any new additions in the future. I don't have many questions at this point, but does anybody know of any DIY cage threads I could look at? DIY would possibly be the best route cage wise.