Is it possiable to sex an adult Melleri?

[Revler]

The question is in the title. I have pygmi, panther, jackson, and werni and am very interested in expanding my small home buisness to include Melleri breeding. My husband has already started the "open roaming greenhouse project" for them despite my insistance that I haven't decided to get them yet and am still doing my research. (I think he just likes to build things... )

Anywho, the question is can they be accuratly sexed? I'd like to try for a breeding pair BUT, if they can't actually be acuratly sexed they may not be the investment I'm looking for. I have found various conflicting information....some saying they can sex a melleri and some saying it's impossiable to accuratly sex them. Is there a deffiantive answer out there

 

[lbesok]

From what I understand sexing them isn't an easy feat. The for sure way is to see a pair mating... Also sometimes WC females come in pregnant.
WC's are oftentimes difficult to acclimate. Hatching out CB melleri is a great accomplishment.
If you haven't already found this site, it is EXTREMELY helpful in regards to Melleri keeping and care:
http://www.melleridiscovery.com/index.html
Here is the link where the site goes in to detail about sexing:
http://www.melleridiscovery.com/index.html
Also other good articles:
http://chameleonnews.com/?page=article&id=37
http://chameleonnews.com/?page=article&id=39

 

[Chameleon24]

Your best bet would be to take them to a vet and have them probed. thats they only way you can be 100% sure you have a male or female. But just remember because you have a pair doesnt mean that they are compatable. Melleri are difficult to breed, ive had mine for sometime now and they are just starting to get used to each other. its a lot of work, so if you dont have the time or patience i wouldnt, but they are awesome chameleons no doubt. good luck!

 

[studiocham]

Not to add to the sexing conflict, but I don't recommend probing by anyone other than a VERY experienced chameleon vet. Your average vet doesn't know much about their biology, let alone the delicate art of cham probing.

Sepioteuthis, please share your melleri probing tale?

I'm a patient sort, and find the most reliable method of sexing adult melleri is to enlist the help of my "teaser" male melleri. He shows me who is what by instigating breeding displays.

 

[Lizardlover]

in one of the books i read about chameleons there is an accurate way, hold on a sec ill tell you, just let me get the book

 

[Sepioteuthis]

Sepioteuthis, please share your melleri probing tale?

I never had them probed. Dr. Stahl (a VERY experienced herp vet) tried to evert the hemipenes. Although the hemipenes didn't actually show themselves, Dr. Stahl was still be able to make an educated guess (1 male, 1 female). His guess was later confirmed by the animals themselves when they started to show courtship behavior.

I think Kristina's method of behavioral observation is best, but you do have to be patient. Unfortunately there is no easy answer when it comes to sexing melleri unless you can get your hands on a proven pair (and no, I'm not selling mine ).

 

[studiocham]

in one of the books i read about chameleons there is an accurate way, hold on a sec ill tell you, just let me get the book

If you are talking about the book that says the spots behind the occipital lobes tell the gender, that is not an accurate method. Nothing about the lobes indicates gender.

 

[studiocham]

I never had them probed. Dr. Stahl (a VERY experienced herp vet) tried to evert the hemipenes.

Whoops! My mistake!

I think Andrew had his melleri probed, right? I know somebody from mellerichams did it... hmmm...

 

[Chameleon24]

When i said "vet" i didnt mean any old vet. there has to be some common sence here. you wouldnt take a cat to a vet who deals only dogs, would you? no, so obviously youd ask if the vet has experience with chameleons.

 

[Sepioteuthis]

Whoops! My mistake!

I think Andrew had his melleri probed, right? I know somebody from mellerichams did it... hmmm...

No worries, I don't remember who it was either.

 

[studiocham]

When i said "vet" i didnt mean any old vet. there has to be some common sence here. you wouldnt take a cat to a vet who deals only dogs, would you? no, so obviously youd ask if the vet has experience with chameleons.

I only specify a chameleon experienced vet because it's unpleasantly surprising how many exotics vets will try to do the wrong things to chameleons, even when they have no previous experience with them. They just fall under the main heading "Lizards".

Probing is customary with some common herps, but just because a vet has probed some reptiles does not mean they are practiced at probing chameleons, which are easily damaged if even restrained incorrectly.

On the subject of vets: I once had to put my hand between an "exotic" vet's syringe and one of my chameleons. He had loaded the syringe, and was going for my animal without telling me what was in it, nor why. I stopped him and asked- it was ivermectin, at full dosage, which most likely would have killed that particular chameleon with shock. All my cham needed, after a fecal was done, was some Flagyll. He was going to inject my chameleon without even having done a fecal yet!!

I hope my insistence on such an experienced vet wasn't misinterpreted as a growl. It's just a friendly heads-up from my experiences of shopping around for a good herp vet. And FWIW, my LTC-cham-owning vet did not even want to probe my chams. He did x-rays at only the cost of the film instead.

Suzanne: I did a search on m-chams and found a reference to Andrew having Dume probed, but no luck finding an actual post about all the results. It may have been in email... will look.