Is my chameleon ok?

[Dojo]

A while ago I posted on here about the loss of my first chameleon dojo and what I could have possibly done wrong and you guys gave me some really great advice for my next one when I was ready..well, I ordered one from FL Chams and I have had him for about a week. He seems very healthy it's just one thing we had talked about before that is bothering me..when I bring him out he finds a comfy place on my then lays his body down and goes to sleep. He doesn't sleep all the time or anything like that. He will be up all day but the min I bring him out he finds a spot and crashes. Is this ok?

 

[Clint526]

I'm having the same problem with my new ambilobe.

 

[brownie64]

Mine would do that all the time, and he lived to be almost 9 years old. It's nothing to worry about. I think it's the warmth of your hands that do it.

 

[jajeanpierre]

A while ago I posted on here about the loss of my first chameleon dojo and what I could have possibly done wrong and you guys gave me some really great advice for my next one when I was ready..well, I ordered one from FL Chams and I have had him for about a week. He seems very healthy it's just one thing we had talked about before that is bothering me..when I bring him out he finds a comfy place on my then lays his body down and goes to sleep. He doesn't sleep all the time or anything like that. He will be up all day but the min I bring him out he finds a spot and crashes. Is this ok?

I suspect it is stress related. He is stressed and shuts down.

They aren't like a dog that curls up and goes to sleep anywhere anytime.

 

[alphakenc]

Bonding behavior are the best between u and ur pets,since they dont speak ur language so they show their affection towards you in their own body language, who doesnt mind to cuddle their own pets,i know i do even its a hamster or a piggy,eventually they will all fall asleep while they continue to bonding in their beautiful dreams.But excessive bonding can become a sign,so monitor the cham closely give him a chance or to wake him up gently,since you dont wana get him too attach with u in the bizarre ways.

 

[Lathis]

This is not bonding behavior. Chameleons do not cuddle.

I agree with jajeanpierre, it might be a subtle sign of stress. It's not normal for a chameleon to fall asleep on you. If he only does it when you take him out, maybe leave him alone for a little bit to make sure he is not sleeping during the day because of illness or other reasons.

 

[alphakenc]

Oh my dear Lathis,I was jus using my own experience with my own chameleon please dont shatter my bonding dream with him...i can't really speak for everyone's cham,and i wont deny ur opinion,but i do agree with you about the sleeping in daylight part,that is not a normal behavior if that was me and my chamy in our bonding time.

 

[Pygmy chameleon]

I started bonding with my pygmies...now they always look at me with big eyes when they want to be fed..

 

[brownie64]

Mine didn't seem stressed to me, however it vary well could have been the reason so like Lathis said I would give it a break. Better safe than sorry.
However I would disagree that it isn't a common occurrence at least with Veiled I have had several do this while I held them male, and female. Now my Jacksons don't so maybe it's just a thing with veiled's.

 

[kinyonga]

When you take the chameleon out of its cage isn't the temperature lower? Isn't there no UVB? So maybe the chameleon is cooler and thinks the sun is going down so it's time to sleep?

 

[kinyonga]

Chameleons don't cuddle....they may look at you as a safe haven/tree/perch/familiar territory and may even recognize you though.

 

[Dojo]

First off thanks everyone for all of your advice and sharing your personal experiences with me, He does not look stressed to me at all and does not sleep until I turn his light out at night. In my opinion I feel like he likes to come out and sleep because when I put him back he reaches up to the top of the tank and sometimes grabs onto the top and crawls on it like hes pissed I put him back lol. I do rub him under his chin very VERY lightly and he will close his eyes. I am just so scared that something is wrong since my last one did this too..would you guys like pics or a short video?

 

[brownie64]

Sure!

 

[alphakenc]

Yes. I do agree with Lathis and kinyonga .My chameleon do not cuddle,my chameleon love to "tail wrap"and "Toe curl"gripping me tight when it is our bonding time outside his cage time,sometimes he will not even let go off me to go back to his cage at all,I have to continue rejecting his bonding behavior by bring out another male cham so they will be in a very defensive mode for me to put them back in their separate cages,these are just some of my oberservation with them.

 

[jajeanpierre]

First off thanks everyone for all of your advice and sharing your personal experiences with me, He does not look stressed to me at all and does not sleep until I turn his light out at night. In my opinion I feel like he likes to come out and sleep because when I put him back he reaches up to the top of the tank and sometimes grabs onto the top and crawls on it like hes pissed I put him back lol. I do rub him under his chin very VERY lightly and he will close his eyes. I am just so scared that something is wrong since my last one did this too..would you guys like pics or a short video?

Dojo, what does "stressed" in a chameleon look like to you? Why do you think you would recognize what a stressed chameleon looks like?

Again, what species of chameleon do you have and how big/old is he?

What is your enclosure like now? Is it the same 20gal tank you had for your first chameleon? The one everyone told you was inappropriate for a chameleon?

Chameleons are not like dogs or cats. I really doubt any like to be handled; I suspect the ones the owners claim to like handling and being touched are simply very good natured, calm animals that simply tolerate it. They may have learned to tolerate handling in order to get something else they want such as more space outside their cage. Tolerate is a far cry from enjoy.

Your experience with chameleons is all of two months and ended badly without you even being aware your animal was ill although when you posted her story, many responded that there were warning signs that all was not well right from day one. Again, experienced keepers are suggesting things are not right again, this time with your handling.

I think you are completely misreading your chameleon, attributing mammalian/human traits to a reptile. There is absolutely no way you can know what his private thoughts are and whether or not he likes something. Those are the internal private workings of his mind, something you do not have access to--he doesn't speak human and you don't speak chameleon. Think about how often people misunderstand the motives and intentions of other humans? Why do you think you, a human with no successful experience keeping chameleons, could understand what he likes or does not like?

A chameleon is a pretty simple creature. They eat, they reproduce and they sit and wait. They don't strike me as a creature that does a lot of thinking about anything. They are not a species that likes novelty.

You have just received this new chameleon and it seems you are misreading him the way you misread your first chameleon. Let's take a more in depth look at two of your statements:

"When I bring him out he finds a comfy place on me then lays his body down and goes to sleep. He doesn't sleep all the time or anything like that. He will be up all day but the min I bring him out he finds a spot and crashes."

"In my opinion I feel like he likes to come out and sleep because when I put him back he reaches up to the top of the tank and sometimes grabs onto the top and crawls on it like hes pissed I put him back."

In your first statement you suggest he finds a comfy place. What is comfy for a dog is not comfy for a chameleon. Comfy for a chameleon is a skinny natural branch or twig. I do not get the impression from your post that he searches and finds a stick to perch on. They don't snuggle. Dogs snuggle, chameleons don't. You are grossly misunderstanding the very nature of your new pet. If a chameleon is flattening out, they are either in a defensive posture or they are basking and nothing you write suggests to me that this animal is basking in his "comfy" spot.

In your second statement, you are applying motives to your chameleon that you have absolutely no way of knowing. I have no idea what he is thinking, whether he is unhappy at being put back in his cage, but his behavior suggests something is stressing him. If he weren't stressed, he would simply sit on a branch. Lots of chameleons are unhappy (stressed) in their enclosures and it is usually because the enclosure is inappropriate. Again, do you have him in the same 20gal tank that your first one was housed in? Twenty gallons is not a big enclosure. A new screen cage (about 24" x 24" x 48") will only cost about $100. An inappropriate cage is one that is too small, poorly furnished or the incorrect temperature or humidity. What is "too small" for one chameleon is tolerable for another. Twenty gallons is pretty small.

Look first at your husbandry. It seems he is agitated in his cage when you put him back. Why? The cage is probably too small. Is it furnished enough--does it have lots of cover, lots of perching spaces at different levels so he can choose the amount of light (UVB) and temperature to be at? Is it the right temperature and humidity for his species and his age? Young chameleons need slightly different conditions than mature chameleons.

Chameleons do not come out of a cage and sleep in a strange environment. If you pick up (stress) even a very sick chameleon they will become alert. Adrenaline and other hormones involved in a stress response (hich is a survival resonse) have that effect on them and any other animal for that matter. That's why a mortally wounded animal might run off on broken legs. Survival hormones kick in and they overcome a lot of pain, etc.

We have all told you: it is abnormal for a chameleon to close its eyes and supposedly sleep on you, especially during daylight. We told you that with your first chameleon and we are telling you again with this second chameleon.

We have told you that handling is stressful yet you try to pet him.

We have offered you an explanation of why an apparently healthy chameleon might appear to go to sleep when put in a very stressful situation. You have failed to understand and recognize that handling chameleons is stressful. You have owned this second chameleon for a few days and you are stressing it to the point that it is shutting down. Keep it up and you will be burying this chameleon as well, because chronic stress shuts down the immune system so they are more vulnerable to a disease. Chameleons are pretty tough IF you give them what you need. Handling is simply not what they need, and is especially stressful on an already stressed animal.

I don't think a chameleon is the right pet for you. Why do you have one? You are not recognizing their very nature. They do not like to be petted. They do not engage in any form of tactile behavior to each other even when breeding so why do you think he would like his chin stroked?

I'm sorry for being blunt and seemingly harsh. I know how upset you were when you lost your first chameleon. It is always better to err on the side of giving him less stress than he can comfortably tolerate than giving him too much. You are new to chameleons, yet you are ignoring experienced keepers suggestions and insight into the very nature of chameleons. I'm not sure you are open to giving this chameleon what he needs.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Yes. I do agree with Lathis and kinyonga .My chameleon do not cuddle,my chameleon love to "tail wrap"and "Toe curl"gripping me tight when it is our bonding time outside his cage time,sometimes he will not even let go off me to go back to his cage at all,I have to continue rejecting his bonding behavior by bring out another male cham so they will be in a very defensive mode for me to put them back in their separate cages,these are just some of my oberservation with them.

Chameleons don't "bond" with anything. Holding on for dear life is not bonding. Not letting go is not bonding, it's a survival strategy. A chameleon that can hang onto a branch when a predator grabs it will have a better chance of survival than one that lets go easily.

 

[alphakenc]

Chameleons don't "bond" with anything. Holding on for dear life is not bonding. Not letting go is not bonding, it's a survival strategy. A chameleon that can hang onto a branch when a predator grabs it will have a better chance of survival than one that lets go easily.

Thank you Im all ears,i will cosider your thoughts.Maybe its me to "bonding" with them,if that sounds better for you along with others in this forum to understand,have a great day jajeanpierre.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Thank you Im all ears,i will cosider your thoughts.Maybe its me to "bonding" with them,if that sounds better for you along with others in this forum to understand,have a great day jajeanpierre.

I don't know how you can bond with a creature that doesn't respond socially. "Bonding" suggests a two-way communication of shared emotions, an attachment between two beings, not something a chameleon is quite capable of.

 

[alphakenc]

I don't know how you can bond with a creature that doesn't respond socially. "Bonding" suggests a two-way communication of shared emotions, an attachment between two beings, not something a chameleon is quite capable of.

Haha,maybe im just a special kind of guy like to think things in a different way,after all Love is making all sorts life to go around,i really appreciate ur thoughts and your persistence to express just like I do in my own way,if I was right about these wording ,and I respect all you great people in this forum,after all I love to see a human writing rather than all my pets silent treatment to me,thank you for reading my thoughts and reply me back.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Haha,maybe im just a special kind of guy like to think things in a different way,after all Love is making all sorts life to go around,i really appreciate ur thoughts and your persistence to express just like I do in my own way,if I was right about these wording ,and I respect all you great people in this forum,after all I love to see a human writing rather than all my pets silent treatment to me,thank you for reading my thoughts and reply me back.

The whole "bonding" concept is mostly a fallacy, especially when applied to a chameleon. Bonding is what happens between a mother and her newborn, between a couple when they become a couple. It is intricately linked to a whole lot of hormones. It is just not something that happens between a human and a chameleon and I cringe, absolutely cringe, whenever I read someone is spending quality time to "bond" with their chameleon.