Long Time Lurker, First Time Poster

[MistressOfMisery]

Been a lurker for awhile but never posted. I am a 28/f/San Diego, CA USA

My bf and I purchased 2 veiled chams from the reptile expo this summer Lilith and Maximus "Max". We were so super excited! But they barely grew just recently since I purchased them did I start searching for a cause...found it! Possible MBD (very early stages). There were question we had about lighting and sups but...

...we were given bad advice at the expo from the vendors selling supplies (unfortunately). Until we had a light bub explosion a week ago we didn't have a bulb that had UVB =/ BUT they have always been right next to the window so we thought it would be fine. After seriously going through much of this website I am afraid their growth is stunted perhaps from lack of UVB. They don't really turn colors at all except when mad and they turn darkish, they are a boy and a girl and have never really showed aggression towards one another (we have been waiting to see any signs so we knew when to separate), we have a fogger/mister in there, basking lamp and UVB bulb. They shed regularly & eat normally. No signs of MBD (other than stunted growth), I have checked their legs regularly for any signs, eating habits, behavior, etc.

I have neglected writing on here because I knew I would hear an ear full, or I just think I would because I feel guilty, I did this to my babies! I feel like a horrid person let alone a horrible parent!

I also HAD two frogs, one was just a regular little green tree frog but she passed a month ago and she was housed with a blind in one eye dumpy tree frog (Bella and Chub Chub). I had her for 2 years.

Just wanted to say hello and introduce myself! Ok, I am ready for the lashings! I just want to say I do take partial blame since i should have known better...but seriously, pretty bad when people just sell you crap to make $ and don't care about the animals.

 

[carol5208]

hello and welcome to the forums. During this time, did you supplement them with calcium at all? You probably have figured out by now that having them in front of a window gave them no uvb either as uvb rays to not penetrate glass. Can you post some pics of them and when did you get them?. You said summer, but did not mention the month. I trust you have seperated them by now. When they are babies it is ok but should be seperated by about 3 months or so. Just because they are not showing aggression does not mean that one or the other has not been stressed out by the other and often times chameleons show no outward signs of illness until things are bad. I am also sure that you know your female can lay eggs as early as 4 months whether mated or not(what are their ages?)so you will need a laying bin for the female as I you have probably learned about already. On another note, I never buy anything anymore(including) animals until I have researched myself first. Too much info on the internet these days not to. Yes, the people selling them should know how to care for them, but often times that is not the case. I hope your chameleons are not too damaged and you can get them back on the right track.

 

[gil]

hey you could get some miner-all get the indoor one because they got a out door one too also get some calcium with d3 but give the d3 like every two weeks or so. so i see you live in suuny diego putting them out side for a few hours it works wunders too. what are you feeding them try to find some dubias, horn worms, silkworms, but gut load them like with mangos or apples or something. as far as lights get some compact flourecence they work good, uvb bulbs though. try keep them warm to. hope info helps out your chameleons

 

[laurie]

Ok you said you were ready for a lashing, here goes. You are a bad chameleon mommy, you did the same think as tons of us did when we got our first cham!! I don't think what has happened matters, it is what happens for here on the matters. Lets do two things, I will give you a form to copy, paste and fill out, I will also attach a proper care sheet and we will work for there ok? The very best thing in the world right now is to get them as much uvb from being outside, just make sure they are safe and not in glass so they really get uvb. Also make sure they are not to hot.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/

This is a basic care sheet to get you started, we will do more soon.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/camothe/585-basic-care-veiled-chameleon.html

I will be here to help you and I won't yell at you, I am in Montana, so you would never hear me.

 

[DavidBuchan]

Hello, welcome to the forum Lots of people do get bad advice from pet stores, chameleons are more complicated to look after than they want to make out....it does happen a lot. I always recommend this great all-round caresheet for looking after Veileds to new people - https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/chameleonsinmyhouse/395-veiled-chameleon-care-sheet.html
Also, if you are looking for the best uvb lights you could go for Arcadia tubes or a reptisun 5.0.

Reptiglo ones cost more in the long run because they need replacing every 3-4 months.

 

[Randi]

Welcome. Kudos to you for coming here to learn and to do better by your babies. It shows that you do want what is best for them, and that's awesome. In addition to filling out the how to ask for help form, would you be able to post pics of the chams and setup?

 

[absolutbill]

Welcome to the forums. You realized there was an issue and you researched until you found an answer. You didn't just figure that they were expendable lizards, let them suffer, and then get more. Therefore no lashings from me Seriously, we're all here to help you and get your two little ones on the right track. I agree with everything that's been posted so no need to repeat the great advice that's already been dispensed. Bring on the pictures and fill out the How to ask for help form, and we'll come up with a plan of action for you!

 

[MistressOfMisery]

Thanks for all the responses!

Yes, I can get pics...the aren't fans of pictures BUT they love to hang out on our shoulders while we walk around the house and do whatever. They also like climbing in my hair (I have thick curly hair). I can also weigh them (I have a digital food scale) and measure them. They get gut loaded crickets, random moths and flies that come inside or that we grab off the porch. They love meal worms... Their cage is 18x18x36. We will be getting another cage probably similar to this one. It is all screened in, we have a dripper and a mister. Like I said we were waiting to see the imfamous signs of aggression but have really seen any. Besides her crabby moods to us in general. I have a big live plant, fake vines, some real siticks to wind the plant around as it grows.

It looked like the petstore was out of Calcium w/o D3 when I went the other day. I did get a multivitamin and calcium w/ D3. I will check at a different petstore tomorrow, luckily i drive around all day for a living so doing errands is no problem. I am always up by LLLReptiles, drive past at least once a week.

Glad to know I am not enemy #1 =)

I will get pics of things tomorrow or Tuesday! I know this whole thing would be easier with pictures. Other than the fact of them being small they seem fine normal chams from everything I read.

 

[MistressOfMisery]

I didn't learn until on here that UVB did not go through GLASS, since I was told they wouldn't need sups if it were in sunlight and by a window was good... When it is super warm I open the window but there is a screen. I believe it was June maybe when I purchased them. I was told they were 2 months old aprox. I think it was like $70 cash at the expo for a male and a female. Even though I am in San Diego, CA and the weather is beautiful, I am east so it does get in the 30s at night in winter and since i am in a fairly rural area We can't leave them out in their cage, I am afraid one of the critters will come, try and eat them or batter their cage. For sure getting a cage after XMAS and separating unless something drastic happens then obviously I would do it ASAP.

Their UVB bulb is a reptisun 5.0

When I was younger (like 10 years ago) I purchased a baby cham from a breeder, real brief instructions, it was sent in a Styrofoam box like a small take out box? and died a few days after arrival (same with my friend's). He sent us 2 more but we paid shipping and mine died again but I think her's lived and died of a disease.