Lowered Activity

GrimCamel

Established Member
Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - Male panther chameleon bought september 2015. 3 y/o
  • Handling - He used to want to come out almost every day but these days almost nothing so no handling.
  • Feeding - Crickets, zophobas, dubia, turkestan and occupationally glowspot roaches, grasshoppers or other things I find at expos. All gutloaded with greens like leftover salad mix, cucumber but mostly carrot. Some feeders have constant accsess to oats and occupationally brit rabbit senior pellets.
    I am always hand feeding due to unknown issue where he may not shoot out his tongue all the way. Vet said lack of vit A but couldnt see anything visible and only recommended me to gutload carrots which I had already been doing. This issue didn't exist when I bought him but he had it for quite some time now. When he is refusing food I give him 2 zophobas which he almost never refuse and while chewing one of them I put in a dubia for him to eat as well. However his appetite seems to be back now so I let him eat as many crickets/dubia as he want to, around 3-5 I would say. Not a big eater.
  • Supplements - zoo med Repti calcium w/o D3 two times a week, Repti calcium with D3 every other weekend and exo terra multivitamin the rest of the weekends.
  • Watering - I use a hand mister for the moment and spray him 1-2 times a day. I've recently bought a mistking that I'm about to set up. I almost always see him drink water that sipped down his face and sometimes he drinks directly from the mist bottle. I do own a dripper but I almost never use it since I only saw him try it once when it was new.
  • Fecal Description - Looks normal to me. Last one seemed to have less than a 3rd orange and more white
  • History - Previously named issue with tongue and a still ongoing skin issue (see this thread https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/identify-small-lumps.155048/) which I have no update on since he the only shedding he has done since then is one back foot. I went to the vet in january to check on his skin and mentioned his tongue problem but neither got a clear answer. I am supposed to return if his skin still looks the same after shed (which he havent had in a while unless we are talking about shedding a leg or two). He didnt get any remarks on overall health.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Largest exoterra size for the time being. Bioactive with lots of live plants.
  • Lighting - His light goes on very late I know I have no timer installed yet but I will most likely fix that when I install the mister. It goes on between 9 and 10 in the morning and off around 11 in the evening.
    I have one basking lamp and I recently (jan 25) switched out my coiled exoterra uvb bulb to a light tube of the same brand and strength (10.0).
  • Temperature - At the moment I only measure his basking spot which is not very optimal I know. Its 30 degree celcius, sometimes a few degrees more in the summer. I've never seen him bask with his mouth open, dark in the enclosure or walking around on the bottom for longer periods of time.
  • Humidity - around 70 to 80 most of the day. No big drops.
  • Plants - Living plants of multiple species. I don't have the names in my head but I always check if they might be toxic on the labels or FL safe plant list.
  • Placement - On a desktop in one of the bedrooms. We do own 5 dogs but I only allow one of them to stay in the room and shes one of those who goes straight to bed and sleeps.
  • Location - Sweden's west coast

Current Problem - lowered activity and closed eyes in the afternoon

I have another thread about his skin issues so I will keep the subjects separated. Since I changed his cage lighting I've noticed a lack of activity. If I remember last summer he used to be a very active little man who walked up to the enclosure doors almost every day to go to his free range. I haven't seen him wanting to go out for months but I mostly suspected the cold being the issue or the very dull grey or sometimes white outside not being very interesting to look at trough the window where the freerange is. These few last weeks he havent been moving around a lot and is mostly sitting on the middle of his top branch with a curled tail, not even under the basking bulb. He has been looking like he is about to fall asleep any minute and sometimes he even closes his eyes for short periods of time. He only moves around when we mist him and I feed him then it takes a while and he'll be back like he was before. I don't really know what suspect, maybe I should gutload different to give him more vitamines? I am open to all suggestions to improve my husbandry
 
My first guess would be dehydration. There shouldn't be any orange in his urates. Misting 1-2 times a day is not enough.
Glad you will be getting a mistking set up soon. I have mine set up to go off 5 times a day. Once for 5 minutes and the rest for 2 1/2 minutes. Sometimes it takes a few minutes for them to be stimulated to drink. And at least once a week I do a 20 minute long mist. Being consistently dehydrated will slowly affect major organ and they will start sitting down. Until you get it set up I would suggest showering him daily for 20-30 minutes at a time. Place him on a sturdy plant in the shower and aim the warm shower at the wall so it bounces off the wall and onto the plant. Always supervised.

And a vet visit would be a good idea especially since he is showing signs of illness like the lethargy and eyes closing during the day.
 
My first guess would be dehydration. There shouldn't be any orange in his urates. Misting 1-2 times a day is not enough.
Glad you will be getting a mistking set up soon. I have mine set up to go off 5 times a day. Once for 5 minutes and the rest for 2 1/2 minutes. Sometimes it takes a few minutes for them to be stimulated to drink. And at least once a week I do a 20 minute long mist. Being consistently dehydrated will slowly affect major organ and they will start sitting down. Until you get it set up I would suggest showering him daily for 20-30 minutes at a time. Place him on a sturdy plant in the shower and aim the warm shower at the wall so it bounces off the wall and onto the plant. Always supervised.

And a vet visit would be a good idea especially since he is showing signs of illness like the lethargy and eyes closing during the day.

You do remember I wrote that I have a glass enclosure right? Misting it 5 times would flood the entire thing. 2 times is what is recommended for a glass. Maybe start running the dripper again is a better idea
 
You do remember I wrote that I have a glass enclosure right? Misting it 5 times would flood the entire thing. 2 times is what is recommended for a glass. Maybe start running the dripper again is a better idea
Im curious where you heard 2 times a day with a glass enclosure? Not that I don't believe you, I'm just wondering your source. Even with glass they still need enough misting to stimulate them to drink and to clean out their eyes. The need is still there even with glass. I had my veiled in a glass "hospital" cage until he was strong enough to go into a bigger screen cage. I still misted 4 times a day for a few minutes. It's a little more of a pain but I used paper towels on the floor and just changed them out a couple times a day. But I do see you have a bioactive floor, that's awesome! Could you try upping a little at a time and see where the absolute most you can do without letting it flood out? A dripper may help as he may or may not drink from it. Some do some won't. Its definitely worth a try to give him more access to drinking water. But that will still leave the need to clean out his eyes. In your case, if you are not going to be able to add a few more misting times(that is totally up to you as you know your set up and what you feel you can do) then I would definitely suggest a few showers a week. That would give him the time to clean out the eyes. Believe me, you do not want to end up dealing with an eye infection. I did and it ended up causing the death of my cham because it went septic in his system and it was a long 5 month battle with daily eye drops and ointment 4 times a day. If I can spare anyone that I would.
 
Im curious where you heard 2 times a day with a glass enclosure? Not that I don't believe you, I'm just wondering your source. Even with glass they still need enough misting to stimulate them to drink and to clean out their eyes. The need is still there even with glass. I had my veiled in a glass "hospital" cage until he was strong enough to go into a bigger screen cage. I still misted 4 times a day for a few minutes. It's a little more of a pain but I used paper towels on the floor and just changed them out a couple times a day. But I do see you have a bioactive floor, that's awesome! Could you try upping a little at a time and see where the absolute most you can do without letting it flood out? A dripper may help as he may or may not drink from it. Some do some won't. Its definitely worth a try to give him more access to drinking water. But that will still leave the need to clean out his eyes. In your case, if you are not going to be able to add a few more misting times(that is totally up to you as you know your set up and what you feel you can do) then I would definitely suggest a few showers a week. That would give him the time to clean out the eyes. Believe me, you do not want to end up dealing with an eye infection. I did and it ended up causing the death of my cham because it went septic in his system and it was a long 5 month battle with daily eye drops and ointment 4 times a day. If I can spare anyone that I would.

I don't have a source I'm afraid its just what I've seen been said here on the forums from those who own glass themselves. Having a too humid glass enclosure may cause RI as well but I can always experiment with another misting and see how it goes. If it might help him then sure. I think I have only showered my chameleon about two times. I can't keep the warm water running for as long as recommended since it runs out. Dont really know about the stress factor here but It havent been too bad those times I tried


Is this the thread about the skin issues?
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/identify-small-lumps.155048/#post-1325897
Does he still have those lumps? Are they any worse?
If so...maybe that has something to do with the situation now??
Maybe you should have continued with that thread instead of making another if that's then case. It would hello us to understand the whole situation.

Yes, I linked it in OP when I wrote it and Im sure I mentioned that he didnt go through any shed so no healing has been done :/ I chose to create a new thread since I think my husbandry is behind this. The vet I went seeing didnt think much about his skin issue so I assumed is was just a skin thing and nothing else. But if you really think these things might go hand in hand so to say, just say so
 
When I wrote this post I was on my way to southern sweden for 1 week vacation and I just got home a few days ago. Incubus was really pale when I got home and today he started to shed his face. Im giving him a shower right now and I just noticed this strange discoloration. Any thoughts?
20170317_133703.jpg
 
I was thinking fungal infection but its only my guess. I e-mailed my vet the same picture today as well
Speculating here but It might be related to his other skin problem even if they look very different
 
Yes, the one that the forum declared to be papilloma. Made an update in that tread just a few moments ago from my phone. He shed away the biggest "lump" this morning just like the vet suggested he would do. I am still waiting for result on the other one.

To update this case tho I have noticed a change. Even tho he is shedding and even beneath his shed he is very pale he seems to be active again out of nowhere. He has started to walk around on his favorite vine. Another thing I noticed in his shed was his feces. It was the biggest urinate I ever seen. At least twice as long as his usual and a bit thicker, horrible orange with only the tip white. Maybe its related somehow. At least its out of him now and he looks so much more better activity wise.
 
20170324_160304.jpg

Here is the latest picture of his discolored spot. Im not really sure it it looks any better since it does not shed. The vet havent answerd my e-mail either. I might contact him personally to get an opinion
 
You said urates are orange, is there a chance it's some that rubbed or ran down on his tail? I know some times stuff that sticks to the skin takes more time to shed off. Could be on top instead of underneath.
 
Yes he had that really bad urate otherwise its not that much orange, and today it was 90% white. I dont think its dirt if you look at his skin texture on the first picture before he started to shed the area. His skin looks kind of like its coming apart in the middle if you get me. I dont really know how to explain the word but it kind of looks like its tearing a bit which is worrying me a bit
 
Vet called me today about Incubus' bloodsample. Everything looks good, no infection, what didnt look good was my already suspected lack of preformed vitamin A and too much calcium (or rather too much D3 blocking the calcium). Thinking of my supplements I think the Exo Terra multivitamin is behind some of it. If I remember correctly it contained D3 but I didnt think much too it since I had already bought it and ofc, that gave him a double dose of D3. It doesnt seem to contain preformed vitamine A either. Im changing to Repashy Supervite instead and well see
 
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