Madgascar Biome Project!

[cyberlocc]

Hey guys, I been away awhile, had a new baby and a bunch of other stuff go down. So I had to leave the hobby among others. But I am back, and going to finish my large DIY enclosure, along with changing the plan, to a Madgascar Biome!

SUMMARY IDEA
The goal, 100% Naturalistic Vivarium! It will be a little slice of Madgascar in my living room! It will also house a F. Paradlis. ALL PLANTS will be Eastern Humid Forest Natives, just like the Panther.

I also made a blog Thread, that will be a much cleaner version of this!

It can be found here, https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/blog/madagascar-biome-project.40626/

 

[cyberlocc]

THE DETAILS!


THE ENCLOSURE

The Enclosure, is hand made wooden Viv. It will have Glass sliding doors, and Vents to allow airflow. It will be 100% bioactive even the walls.

The dimensions are 48in wide, 24in deep, 82in tall.

The Enclosure consists of 4 sections, we will discuss them top to bottom.

Lighting Top: There is a removable Top for Lighting, This will hold my lights, my Herpstat 6, and drippers ect.

Living Area: The Living area is 46 inches tall, it consists of the area the cham can roam in. Which will be filled with plants, have greatstuff / cocofibered walls, ect.

Soil Bin: The soil bin, is 7.5 inches deep, with 2 holes for drainage. We will talk more about this area, when its time to soil fill it.

Water Storage: The bottom is a cubby for water storage for the system. It will hold a 13 gallon water reservoir, The Fogger system, A Drainage catch, the Mistking pump, and anything else I may need a place to put .


THE PLANTS: (Still work in progress, watch the blog for updates!)

The setup will be 100% Bioactive, great stuff will fill gaps in the background, where the Cork Trees are not, it will be covered with Cocofiber fiber, that will then be covered with living moss. The Cork Trees will be adorned by Native Orchids, and Ferns!

Their will be Madgascar Native plants and trees planted in the 7inch deep soil bin.

Everything will be Madgascar Native Only! (Except the soil) I even plan to mix in Red Terrarium Sand to help imatate the red soil of the island! You won't see it, but I don't care lol!

Plant List:

Trees:

Dracaena marginata (AKA Madgascar Dragon Tree) x2-4. This are my main trees, though I may switch out 2 for 2 of something else, undecided.

Ground Cover / Wall Cover:

Athyrium x3-4 (not sure the rest of the name, as neither is the seller, it is a Athyrium, that was harvested from Eastern Madgascar, came in with some orchids. (im on the lookout for more ferns, if you know of any native to Humid forests of Madagascar let me know!)

Stephanotis floribunda (AKA Madgascar Jasmine) x2. This is my wall climbing vine and I may entice it to wrap the bio active hanging vines.

Hypoestes phyllostachya (AKA Polka Dot Plant) x2. This is some very pretty ground cover.

Asplenium nidus (AKA Birds Nest Fern) x1, too big to do 2 lol.


Houttuynia cordata (AKA Chameleon Plant) x1. This is a pretty, edible ground cover, I am not sure if I will include it as it likes to strangle vivariums.

Orchids (all Orchids will be mounted to cork bark on the walls):

Angraecum sesquipedale (AKA Darwins Orchid / Star Orchid) x1, This is the star of the show (Pun intended), but seriously it will be in the center of the cage, it can grow quite large and will have plenty of room to do so.

All the further orchids, amounts are varied, due to availability ect, to fill the space sufficiently. More may be added, and I am open to suggestions that fit the criteria.

Normal:
Aerangis modesta
Angraecum aloifolium
Angraecum elephantinum


Miniature:
Aerangis hyaloides
Aerangis fuscata
Aerangis citrata
Angraecum didieri
Angraecum compactum
Angraecum pectinatum



THE LIGHTING:

The lighting, will of course be Naturalistic as well. We can't have Naturalistic, with lights turning on blasting tons of lumens, at 7am. So we need to make them gradual, like the sun. They need to ramp on, and they need to ramp off, they need to be brightest in afternoon, more orange in the morning, more blue at night.

We will be achieving this, in the fullest. To do so we will be using,

Basking - There will be 2 Arcadia Deep Heat projectors. Not only do these allow me the ability not have to worry about the light from basking lights. They also provide the chameleon with InfaRed heat! They will be tempature controlled, with the assistance of a Herpstat 6, to maintain perfect tempatures. On the opposite side, there will also be a fan, hooked to the Herpstat to cool the cage as needed to maintain perfect temps.

Grow Lights - The grow lights, are going to be a very imporant piece of the pie. Not only do they give the Cham, a nice lit enclosure, they also provide my hues and color changes, needed to make Dawn and Dusk be completely different atmospheres. This will be accomplished using 4 AI Prime Fresh Water LEDs. At 50ws and 4000 Lumens each, and the ability to control the spectrum, precisely, these will accomplish what we need and more! And do so while delivering over 16k Lumens of light, in any color I want with incredible levels of PAR.

UVB - Now I know what your thinking, what's the point? How can you adjust the spectrum or color, and ramp the lights when you have a 5k lumens T5HO UVB bulb blasting. Your right, which is why I found a solution. With the combination of a Phillips Advance Dimming T5HO ballast, and a TC 421, LED controller converted to 0-10v. I will be able to control the UVB bulbs brightness, down to 1% of the bulbs power! Which will allow me to ramp it on in the morning as well as 1 other suprise, we will get to later.



THE WATER:

We all know Chameleons need lots of water. However what they really need, is humidity. We will achieve both.

Humidity - We will be maintaining nighttime humidity at 80% for the nighttime, just like it is in Madagascar. We will do so, with the help of a Ultrasonic Humidifier, and the Herpstat 6, Humidity mode.

Misting - Misting, nothing special here for now. Just a Mistking, with 4 Nozzles. A Rain system, is in the thought stages, but for now just a Mistking (any ideas??) There will also be a second fan, next to the cooling fan, this fan will be on timed intervals to ensure proper drying between sessions, it will also help with ventilation.

Storms - This is a combination of all things up until this point, working in a beautiful glorious tandem. We have all seen Chameleons when the Mister turns on, they run, they hide, they look like a deer in the headlights. They go from sitting on a branch, enjoying life, to being blasted with a stream of water. They have no signs, like they do in the wild. So I will be rectifying that.

30 mins before the Misters turn on, in the afternoon and evening. The lights will began their storm mode. The lights will darken and blue, as if clouds have settled in.

15 Mins before the misters turn on, the timed fan will turn on, creating a light gentle breeze. Helping to change atmospheric pressure, and provide a cool breeze.

10 Mins before the misters turn on, the Fogger will turn on, bringing up the humidity, the pressure, and bringing the smell of rain on the air.

When the misters are on, the cloudy lights will flash bright white, to simulate the occasional lighting strikes.

After the mist is over. The lights will begin to ramp back to their normal spectrum, until the next storm.

 

[timw1]

Cool, can't wait to follow the progress!

 

[Franquixote]

Almost a year ago I started on the exact same course (search the forums, my title is even the same) and wish you luck- my biggest stumbling block was that a lot of the flora from Madagascar is either hard to find, expensive, incompatible with a size/space of a terrarium, etc.
One thing I found that was perfect was Madagascar jasmine (Stephanotis floribunda) and I can take a decent sized cutting(s) for you, but n the past have had major issues with getting cuttings to 'take'. I'm on about my 5th try now, and have a very small one that seems to be getting roots because I have kept it outside and in the ground. I'm not sure it will survive the transplant, but I'll try for you- PM me and you would just pay shipping.
Only other thing I ask is that you keep us updated as to your final choice of plants!

 

[cyberlocc]

Almost a year ago I started on the exact same course (search the forums, my title is even the same) and wish you luck- my biggest stumbling block was that a lot of the flora from Madagascar is either hard to find, expensive, incompatible with a size/space of a terrarium, etc.
One thing I found that was perfect was Madagascar jasmine (Stephanotis floribunda) and I can take a decent sized cutting(s) for you, but n the past have had major issues with getting cuttings to 'take'. I'm on about my 5th try now, and have a very small one that seems to be getting roots because I have kept it outside and in the ground. I'm not sure it will survive the transplant, but I'll try for you- PM me and you would just pay shipping.
Only other thing I ask is that you keep us updated as to your final choice of plants!

Yep, that's where I got the word Biome from you, seen your thread in my search of Flora. The search for Flora is hard, but it is doable.

I currently have, Madgascar Jasmine, 2 of them variegated, 4 Madgascar Blood dragon trees (thought about using a Yucca too, jury is still out), Polka dot plants x2, Darwin's Orchid (gets big). That's just in my possession, there is still quite a few things on my list .

I considered Madgascar Perwinkle, but IDK I think I have enough ground cover, with above and a few ferns I have found from Madgascar.

The walls will be covered in orchids, all from the madgascar humid forests of the east. It's easy to find them actually, their issue is they are 40-50 dollars each, same with the ferns.

I also plan to give a shot to a Nepthenes, though they are very hard to grow in captivity even not in a terrium we will see.

I also thought about using a chameleon plant for some more ground cover, but read that is a weed and will strangle the Viv. That said as it is Naturalistic, I am only shooting for maybe 10 or so plant species, with alot of half of them, and a few of the others. In nature you won't see 20 different plants in a small space either, even in a decent sized one.

You have your commons, then your semi rares, and your rares.
So what I have, common (with a couple ferns)
The orchids, will be 1-2 commons, then Rares. The very rare will be the Darwin's Orchid, who is also the center piece, and gets up to 3'5" tall! But flatish, so it will be mounted to the bark on the back center.

Here is a temporary Viv I setup for the needy plants. The dragon trees are too big to be in there and not as needy lol. Going to order some more this week likely, have to balance filling this Viv while getting the cage ready for plants. Trying for terristials mostly ATM.

As for final choice of plants, going to add my list now, though it will still be added to . I didn't get a chance to finish the OP it was late at night.

 

[jamest0o0]

Love the idea, I've been thinking of something very similar for the longest time. @Franquixote came to mind as well when I read this. I too like the storm idea and planned to implement that for my final parsonii enclosure.

I'd like to see where you go with the plants. One thing about it, you wont really find many native plants that Panthers are found on. Madagascar has many different climates, from arid coastal regions to dense cool and humid rainforests. In a way it would be somewhat impossible/very difficult to make a true panther biome. People like to make wet rainforest settings for them, but that's not usually where they inhabit in the wild. What most people envision for Panthers is actually where montane species would be found.

A fogger also wouldn't come on during the day, even before rain and could lead to RI with hot and humid mixing. Panthers go weeks sometimes without a rain, but high nighttime humidity.

 

[cyberlocc]

Love the idea, I've been thinking of something very similar for the longest time. @Franquixote came to mind as well when I read this. I too like the storm idea and planned to implement that for my final parsonii enclosure.

I'd like to see where you go with the plants. One thing about it, you wont really find any native plants that Panthers are found on. Madagascar has many different climates, from arid coastal regions to dense cool and humid rainforests. In a way it would be somewhat impossible to make a true panther biome. People like to make wet rainforest settings for them, but that's not where they inhabit in the wild. What most people envision for Panthers is actually where montane species would be found.

A fogger also wouldn't come on during the day, even before rain and could lead to RI with hot and humid mixing. Panthers go weeks sometimes without a rain, but high nighttime humidity.

Dont want to discourage you, i can tell you have researched this a lot. I have heavily invested time into researching something like this. To actually replicate where they come from would not work out in our enclosures though. You can still make a sweet set up, but it wouldn't mimic their natural habitat anymore than having a bunch of plants mixed together from all over the world. Not trying to sound negative, recreating natural vivariums is a big interest of mine and my main reason for being in the hobby. So I'd like to see others hop on board with that as well, just sharing what I've found on it so far.

All the info I can find shows Panthers from the Easter lowlands, that is a Rainforest (a humid forest actually) and that's where all these plants are from.

You can't grow the trees they are found on, as they get too large however. But the smaller trees in the area, you certainly can.

Where are you saying Panthers are located? I am not understanding where you think they inhabitant. As to the humidity and heat,

1. I got that idea from Bill Strand, who is doing the same successfully.

2. Panthers in the wild, are in places humidity never drops below 80%.

Also, as it has been said a few times on this board and other research papers, humidity does not cause RI in chams, quite the opposite that can heal them through. They get RIs from wet cold environments, humidity isn't wet. Chameleons even Panthers, need humidity for their lungs to function.

 

[jamest0o0]

Let me find the article explaining that Panthers are usually* found in open, high uv exposure, more dry areas. Funny bill strand would say that. He had a scientist on his podcast that said pretty much the opposite.

 

[jamest0o0]

Actually you're probably right, I think I got some certain locales confused with Panthers as a whole. Which I should know better about. Considering they are found all over.

 

[cyberlocc]

Let me find the article explaining that Panthers are almost found in open, high uv exposure, more dry areas. Funny bill strand would say that. He had a scientist on his podcast that said pretty much the opposite.

Which podcast?

Here is where he talks about it.
http://www.chameleonbreeder.com/podcast/ep-89-naturalistic-hydration-for-chameleons/

Also, drier area is not possible. Panthers are from the Eastern lowlands, there is only 2 climates there, The humid rain forests, and the beaches of the coast. Both are extremely humid year round. The western are of Madgascar is the only dry place on the island, and Panthers do not inhabitant there.

I have read same as you, that with the forests slash and burn, the Panthers have been found in smaller shrubs of beaches. That's is not where they are from, nor is that dry at all lol. That is simply some were found there, due to slash and burn. All the preserves are humid forests, and have wild Panthers in them.

 

[jamest0o0]

Also, as it has been said a few times on this board and other research papers, humidity does not cause RI in chams, quite the opposite that can heal them through. They get RIs from wet cold environments, humidity isn't wet. Chameleons even Panthers, need humidity for their lungs to function.

You got me on the Panthers, but you are backwards on that. Just as with people, high humidity and heat lead to RI. Cool humidity is beneficial.

 

[cyberlocc]

You got me on the Panthers, but you are backwards on that. Just as with people, high humidity and heat lead to RI. Cool humidity is beneficial.

I am going to need some links, no offense, but I have seen respected vets and biologists state extactly the opposite.

Doctor Stein even goes as far as to say use Warm humidity fogger to treat LRIs. Cold and humid is what causes pneumiomna after all.

 

[jamest0o0]

I dont remember the name of the podcast, was season 1 with the scientist that studied them in the field. I gotta take my kid to the pediatrician. I'll look for it in a little.

 

[jamest0o0]

Look up petr necas

 

[jamest0o0]

And no offense to you as well, but now I'm genuinely curious considering I've heard conflicting reports of where Panthers are found. Can you share a link on that? Not that I dont believe you, a quick Google search corrected me a bit, but with all of the locales. They can be found across different climates.

 

[jamest0o0]

http://animaldiversity.org/accounts/Furcifer_pardalis/

Here's one search. You're right about the lowlands, I was paying attention more to the "dry unshaded" part. Need to find the others, along with the podcast which I'll get later.

 

[cyberlocc]

http://animaldiversity.org/accounts/Furcifer_pardalis/

Here's one search. You're right about the lowlands, I was paying attention more to the "dry unshaded" part. Need to find the others, along with the podcast which I'll get later.

I don't know the difference bet

Well see my problem with that link is they say Eastern lowlands and Dry deciduous forests in one swing.

However that doesn't exist. All of the dry decidous forests are only on the west part of Madgascar. But it brings up good points like Nosy Be, that entire island is a Rainforest lol.

Speaks about regioning.
http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/172955/0

"The Panther Chameleon is endemic to Madagascar where it is widespread in lowland areas of the northeast and east. Raselimanana and Rakotomala (2003) give the elevation range for this species from 80 m to 950 m above sea-level, although it certainly occurs at lower elevations (Rabearivony et al. 2008) and may be less common above 700 m (Raxworthy 1988, Raselimanana et al. 2000, Andreone et al. 2005). The chameleon's extent of occurrence within its native range is estimated to be 91,090 km²; populations have also been introduced to the islands of Réunion and Mauritius (N. Cole pers. comm. July 2011). "


Then tells you about the region.
https://www.worldwildlife.org/ecoregions/at0117

I see nowhere, that states there is dry decidous forests in that area of Madgascar, also the plants listed, I have vetted as being found in the same area, Eastern Madgascar, less than 950 above sea level. As a matter of fact, (Granted this is wikipedia, everything I have seen says this)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_dry_deciduous_forests
The Madagascar dry deciduous forests represent a tropical dry forest ecoregion situated in the western and northern part of Madagascar. The area has high numbers of endemic plant and animal species but has suffered large-scale clearance for agriculture.

Madgascars Dry deciduous forests also possess, an extreme amount of toxic plants to chameleons, 95% from what I have been told of the succulents there are euphoria, which are extremely toxic.


The entire Eastern strip of Madgascar, is rainforest. Until you go over the central plains on to the west there is no dry areas, and Chameleons are not found in the west or the central highlands.

I think @Chris Anderson would be a big help right now lol. I have a feeling he will know the correct answer .

And If I am wrong, then I will redo my plants that's not an issue at all.

Found some good mapping, so check this out it seems we are both right lol.

However, to me it still looks like the majority are in Humid Forest and Sub Humid forests. Also the dry area, they mention is on a beach, is that not high humidity still?

 

[Franquixote]

I have variegated chameleon plants growing- they are edible! The smell is a strange mix of citrus and diesel. They can quickly take over if not bounded, but produce pretty little white waxy flowers and have lots of greens, yellows, and even pinks throughout.
I would be happy to take some pics and send you as much as you want if you pay the shipping. I would think that they would be fine using priority mail, they are tough plants and have nice thick bases and roots that seem like they could handle the stress.
Drop me a line if interested.

 

[cyberlocc]

I have variegated chameleon plants growing- they are edible! The smell is a strange mix of citrus and diesel. They can quickly take over if not bounded, but produce pretty little white waxy flowers and have lots of greens, yellows, and even pinks throughout.
I would be happy to take some pics and send you as much as you want if you pay the shipping. I would think that they would be fine using priority mail, they are tough plants and have nice thick bases and roots that seem like they could handle the stress.
Drop me a line if interested.

Have you managed to keep them bounded? That is my main concern is keeping them bounded. And thanks you .

 

[Franquixote]

Absolutely bounded. They are planted between my house and the concrete path leading to my front door. They haven't even taken over the whole planting bed between my house and the mentioned sidewalk, though I have large river pebbles and some landscaping fabric down there. They have NOT sent underground shoots under the sidewalk and popped up in the lawn. I have had them there for about 15 years.