Meller chameleon vitamin

[Mawtyplant]

Hello! im curious.. bevause there is sooo many different information about it.
i want to know, what is your vitamin schedule with melleri? (brand, dosage, timing, variation, uvb dosage) and how old is your older healty melleri

Thank!

 

[Nursemaia]

@jpowell86 is the person to talk to about melleri, he's an expert on the species and well respected on the forum. How old is yours? I have a baby that was CB from a gravid import that came from him. Hatched on Aug 5th of last year. I use Rephsady LowD 2x week and plain Ca 3x a week. He only eats flies and I lightly dust them when I put them in with him. I have a 12% Arcadia T5 HO uvb on him. Not sure if that helps you as mine is still pretty young but he was 3gm when I got him and last week he was 17gm so something is working right for me.

 

[Extensionofgreen]

Melleri, especially females and juveniles need a source of PREformed A.
Repashy LoD once a week, plain calcium 2-3 times a week, and repashy vitamins with Preformed A twice per month is a good start. There are a few Repashy products that fit the bill, so be mindful if you choose one with D3.
I also like Minerall Calcium Indoor and outdoor formula. I don't recall if their vitamin product contains Preformed A or not. Use the Minerall Indoor every other week, not once per week.
I liked a product called Dendrocare for dart frogs, as a weekly supplement for melleri and other sensitive species. It supplies a lower dose of vitamins and can be used more often, but I still recommend a secondary source of Preformed A.
In all, I would not supplement more than 3-4 days per week, keep the dusting light and don't turn the feeders white with dust, hydrate, hydrate, hydrate, and revert to plain calcium and reassess your vitamin dosing frequency, if swelling around the throat occurs.
Not to take away from @jpowell86 and his well regarded knowledge of the species, but, 10 years ago, I bred a CB female in captivity and hatched a clutch, as well as had 3 other clutches result from captive mating of WC melleri, in my care.
@jpowell86 and I are dear friends and there is no rivalry for title of melleri expert, but either of us is quite capable of offering sound advice regarding melleri keeping.

 

[Mawtyplant]

Melleri, especially females and juveniles need a source of PREformed A.
Repashy LoD once a week, plain calcium 2-3 times a week, and repashy vitamins with Preformed A twice per month is a good start. There are a few Repashy products that fit the bill, so be mindful if you choose one with D3.
I also like Minerall Calcium Indoor and outdoor formula. I don't recall if their vitamin product contains Preformed A or not. Use the Minerall Indoor every other week, not once per week.
I liked a product called Dendrocare for dart frogs, as a weekly supplement for melleri and other sensitive species. It supplies a lower dose of vitamins and can be used more often, but I still recommend a secondary source of Preformed A.
In all, I would not supplement more than 3-4 days per week, keep the dusting light and don't turn the feeders white with dust, hydrate, hydrate, hydrate, and revert to plain calcium and reassess your vitamin dosing frequency, if swelling around the throat occurs.
Not to take away from @jpowell86 and his well regarded knowledge of the species, but, 10 years ago, I bred a CB female in captivity and hatched a clutch, as well as had 3 other clutches result from captive mating of WC melleri, in my care.
@jpowell86 and I are dear friends and there is no rivalry for title of melleri expert, but either of us is quite capable of offering sound advice regarding melleri keeping.

Repashy LoD dont have preform vit A?

 

[Extensionofgreen]

Check the website for that information. I have heard some say it does, but I believed it to be Calcium and small amounts of D3.

 

[Extensionofgreen]

These are what I use from Repashy:

 

[Mawtyplant]

humm.. so.. if melleri eat small bird and animal in nature.. they should need preformed vit A source more than any other chameleon species (or a source of small bird.. and im not ready for this lol) so.. low D3, more vit A (preformed sources) but not too much because its toxic, lot of water.. good uvb source (i use sunray metal halide bulb 70w) 1 basking spot at 28-29 ambiant at 22-24, lots of place to walk and some spot to hide, sleep and for privacy.
What about the vitamins for gravid females?

Thank you!!

@jpowell86 is the person to talk to about melleri, he's an expert on the species and well respected on the forum. How old is yours? I have a baby that was CB from a gravid import that came from him. Hatched on Aug 5th of last year. I use Rephsady LowD 2x week and plain Ca 3x a week. He only eats flies and I lightly dust them when I put them in with him. I have a 12% Arcadia T5 HO uvb on him. Not sure if that helps you as mine is still pretty young but he was 3gm when I got him and last week he was 17gm so something is working right for me.

my melleri are 2y captive (wc:\)

 

[jpowell86]

sOkay...so here is my synopsis.

Well, first let me say that I really like Andrew's answer and I think it is the best method for most people.

I began really keeping melleri about 7 years ago. I had worked with them at a job prior, but I never really invested in them until the time mentioned. Andrew and I are the same because we don't take the general information given and consider it scripture. The first year I had them, I kept them like every one else. Multivitamins, calcium, etc. In that time, I lost the majority of what I got in. Now, keep in mind that melleri on import are the worst IMO. I know you have LTC, but the majority don't. Edema is a huge issue in melleri and it is exacerbated by the conditions they are kept in prior to importation. The dehydration they endure is nothing short of torture. Sadly, by the time you get them, the damage is already done.

So, with all that being said, I do not use any multivitamin on my adult melleri......NONE. But, I have experimented with a large group of them for the last 7 years. I have 32 melleri total. 20 WC and 12 CH babies I kept from last year. I do use calcium in the winter months. I also use it with newly imported animals and gravid females. But, the underlying renal issues associated with this species in combination with most of the offered supplements we have is a crappy combination.

My goal with this species was not only to breed, but to figure out their husbandry. I know people keep them alive, but my motto with chameleons is, "I don't want them to survive, I want them to thrive." That is my goal. In that, I have realized that the only way I can keep them happy is with wild caught prey. Now most people might think me weird, but my oldest melleri is probably around 7 years old. He has been with me that long and I estimate he was roughly a year old when I got him. I have at least 8 more that are over 5 years old in my care. After the first year of figuring things out, I have used WC prey for the majority of the year and have lost only three melleri in that time. One was the gravid female and the others were ones that were so rough that they were beyond my help.

I know people argue that we can supplement nutrients better in captivity than what the animal receives in the wild. I understand, but don't agree with this really. Not because of percentages or numbers, but based on keeping them for 7 years and having a group of 32 that have been almost experimented with to find this out. I know that not everyone can go out and collect prey like I can from a pristine environment. So, that is why I can't knock supplementation out completely. The only thing that I find important with melleri is vitamin A. Now I give them vitamin A with the gel capsules from the drug store. I use the 8,000 IU. I just squeeze the contents of the capsule on a roaches back and let them eat it. I do this once a month.

So, you can see I am an advocate for WC prey and I think it is the best way to keep melleri. But, if this option isn't present, than instead of multivitamins, I think you should focus on a quality gutload.

I can honestly say that I don't use a gutload that is anything special since I use WC prey most of the time. But, I would suggest learning and implementing this instead of supplementing heavily. You will see much better results. Andrew, @Extensionofgreen, will you please post a copy of your dry gutload mix. BRACE YOURSELF.....it's freaking insane. But, it is rich in what the animal needs and it is getting those key nutrients to the animal using the insects as the vehicle like it should be.

 

[Extensionofgreen]

I don't disagree with anything I'm Joel's approach. I would only add that if you are not offering wold caught prey as a substantial part of the diet and are keeping them indoors for 6 or more months a year, then I feel supplements have a real place. You have to be aware of what you are watching for and consider your gutloading carefully. Feed high calcium feeders and supplement one day less with calcium when feeding high calcium feeders. Getting them what they need through what they eat it the best way, by far, but Vitamin A is hard to account for in an insect diet and feeding vertebrates is problematic. The schedule I outlined above is good for all life stages. You are dosing more by increasing the size of the dusted feeders, as the animals grow and their needs change. You don't need more for a gravid female and for adult animals, I agree with @jpowell86, in that less is more and one or two calcium days a week with vitamins could work well. There are many variables to consider, not least of all the animal's kidney health. Below, find my recent gutload. I add a pound of brewers yeast to this mixture.

 

[Mawtyplant]

NICE!!!!!! jp this is exactly what im looking for!! i have LTC.. but i try to follow all the recomendation.. and it was a mess for the first 4 month.. after i decide too test stop synthetic vitamin, start gutloading, use sunray, put hps fake sun.. cold mist.. warm mist anyway a lot of money and a lot of trial :/ but i have learn how to listen my animals..for the enclosure in a freerange when they feel bad.. they try to go outside and if something wrong inside.. they use stress display and weak reactions .. after 1y here, my melleri look great exept for the last 3 week..my 2 female start having eye problem and maybe a RI.. so.. i start to think about my vitamins.. vit A.. i dont have any preform vit A source i go to the vet and they dont mention about it.. so one pill 1x a month? ( i already have buy the 10 000IU.. should be ok?). Its a good idea to use WC prey but impossible for me (im from montreal.. here.. outside it look a bit like apocalyptic movies I dont actually want to breed my animal at any price (im still at school doctoral degres so.. baby look like a lot of work and time) but i ask for gravid female because last year my female was gravid and it was a really rought period (fungus infection and a lack of calcium :\)

Here! a picture of my apocalypse there is no wc life here for my chams lol

Thank you verry much.. this was probably the helpfullness post of the last year.. i think i should stop ask on facebook and more here

again.. sorry for my english..

 

[Mawtyplant]

what about the repashy bug burger or industrial gutloading product?

 

[jpowell86]

NICE!!!!!! jp this is exactly what im looking for!! i have LTC.. but i try to follow all the recomendation.. and it was a mess for the first 4 month.. after i decide too test stop synthetic vitamin, start gutloading, use sunray, put hps fake sun.. cold mist.. warm mist anyway a lot of money and a lot of trial :/ but i have learn how to listen my animals..for the enclosure in a freerange when they feel bad.. they try to go outside and if something wrong inside.. they use stress display and weak reactions .. after 1y here, my melleri look great exept for the last 3 week..my 2 female start having eye problem and maybe a RI.. so.. i start to think about my vitamins.. vit A.. i dont have any preform vit A source i go to the vet and they dont mention about it.. so one pill 1x a month? ( i already have buy the 10 000IU.. should be ok?). Its a good idea to use WC prey but impossible for me (im from montreal.. here.. outside it look a bit like apocalyptic movies I dont actually want to breed my animal at any price (im still at school doctoral degres so.. baby look like a lot of work and time) but i ask for gravid female because last year my female was gravid and it was a really rought period (fungus infection and a lack of calcium :\)

Here! a picture of my apocalypse there is no wc life here for my chams lol

Thank you verry much.. this was probably the helpfullness post of the last year.. i think i should stop ask on facebook and more here

again.. sorry for my english..

Well, I'm glad I could help.

So, based on the pics....you can't catch insects there???? I'm just kidding. That is awful weather. I give you kudos for living there....I would die.

The eye issues are more than likely more based on a RI than vitamin A. Vitamin A does help with this matter and some link it to RI, but if you already have an RI, you will most likely need to treat the animals accordingly. Free ranging can be a big bonus with melleri as they don't like visual boundaries, but it can also cause issues. Especially being in a cold climate like you are in. Is there any way you can increase the humidity in the room?

The 10,000 IU is just fine. Yes, I only use 1 pill once a month per animal.

No worries about your English, half of my family is from Germany. I have been listening to broken English and the majority of words ending with "s" sounds my whole life. LOL. Good luck in school! You can always PM me if you ever have any questions.

 

[Mawtyplant]

Well, I'm glad I could help.

So, based on the pics....you can't catch insects there???? I'm just kidding. That is awful weather. I give you kudos for living there....I would die.

The eye issues are more than likely more based on a RI than vitamin A. Vitamin A does help with this matter and some link it to RI, but if you already have an RI, you will most likely need to treat the animals accordingly. Free ranging can be a big bonus with melleri as they don't like visual boundaries, but it can also cause issues. Especially being in a cold climate like you are in. Is there any way you can increase the humidity in the room?

The 10,000 IU is just fine. Yes, I only use 1 pill once a month per animal.

No worries about your English, half of my family is from Germany. I have been listening to broken English and the majority of words ending with "s" sounds my whole life. LOL. Good luck in school! You can always PM me if you ever have any questions.

Hahahahahahah! its not that bad! but.. better at summer time! -30 to +34 lol

Ho, i already treat my chams for the RI (trimsulfa + reptaid + serapeptase) but i dont want it to come back and i have never provide any preforms vit A before. I use 1 cold humidifier and 1 hot humidifier. i also have 35 real plants here my humidity is between 40 and 70 (well.. in my appartement.. i have humidity problem.. its wayyyyy naturally too humid.. so i decide to use the situation for my cham. I also use ventilation system and 1 air purifier. For RI? you suggest me to increase the humidity?! lot of people told me to drop it.. im confuse?
here is the freerange (i think at the end its full view) i add some plants to provide 1 hidding spot (my male looking for a place to sleep.. now he have one

 

[jpowell86]

I love the video!

So, I have found that melleri really like having spikes in humidity and then letting the humidity drop. I try to give my guys a spike up to 100% and then I let it fall down to around 40%. Those numbers are exact of course..but roughly.

RI's in chameleons is associated with too much moisture/stagnant humid air. But, it is also associated with dry cold air. I have found that every time I ever had a melleri get an RI, it was because I let them get too cold in conjunction with dry air. Dry being less than 50% humidity. I really avoid a lot of issues by ramping up humidity at night while they sleep. I actually do this for all of my chameleons. Many run foggers during the day which is okay. But if they were to run them at night while the animal is sleeping, they would see far more benefits. That would be my suggestion to you. Usually the majority of issues that are RI related are from central heating/A/C having more of an impact on the animals than the keeper realizes. I hope that all makes sense. Saying to lower humidity for an RI is an automatic response in the community, but not always the right one unfortunately.

 

[Mawtyplant]

I love the video!

So, I have found that melleri really like having spikes in humidity and then letting the humidity drop. I try to give my guys a spike up to 100% and then I let it fall down to around 40%. Those numbers are exact of course..but roughly.

RI's in chameleons is associated with too much moisture/stagnant humid air. But, it is also associated with dry cold air. I have found that every time I ever had a melleri get an RI, it was because I let them get too cold in conjunction with dry air. Dry being less than 50% humidity. I really avoid a lot of issues by ramping up humidity at night while they sleep. I actually do this for all of my chameleons. Many run foggers during the day which is okay. But if they were to run them at night while the animal is sleeping, they would see far more benefits. That would be my suggestion to you. Usually the majority of issues that are RI related are from central heating/A/C having more of an impact on the animals than the keeper realizes. I hope that all makes sense. Saying to lower humidity for an RI is an automatic response in the community, but not always the right one unfortunately.

Nice! ok so i will put back my humidifier for the bed time. thank you! 100% yeah humm sound like a misting session In fact.. the vet was not sure it was RI.. i have bring my chams for eyes problem put she was sudently super healty in front of the vet.. so i have autodiagnosis.. (vet here not really helpfull with melleri and my cham look too healty to be diagnose clearly.. but i know something wrong because i spend so many time with them.. anyway.. eye problem thik saliva and open mouth sound not good to me if you have another diagnosis idea im open of course)