Misting enclosures & hardiest plants (new guy here)

[Big Gulp]

Hi all. So I plan on getting my veiled here pretty soon.

I'm curious, is a screened cage a must? Or can one of the big Exo-Terra terrariums work? Just thinking about humidity levels here. It's get quite dry in WI during the winter month.

Also, when you do mist a screen enclosure, what do you do to keep the water from hitting your room wall that the cage is located next to? Obviously, with glass enclosures, this isn't an issue. But if screened cages is a must, how do I prevent this?

And can you mist using tap water...treated with drops? Is that safe for the Chams to drink?

Lastly, of all the most popular plants, what ones are the hardiest (minus pothos)?

Thanks much!

 

[teejayteej]

Most use some type of plastic to cover the back and sides with. I can say that I have the glass ones and I am thinking of changing to the screen because of ventilation problems. To keep them form getting musty I have to leave the doors open for a few hours a night.
They are nice but I am going to get one of the screen to see which I like better. Right now I would tell you to try the screen first even though I don't have one yet.

 

[DakotaB]

Screen cage is preferred. The more/bigger live plants you have the easy it seems to keep the humidity up. (Im pretty much in the desert and dont have any problems)

As for keeping water from going everywhere. I line the sides and back with that black weed tarp. The one that feels more like a cloth (dont remember the brand) actually repels water. But lets air still go through.

Tap water is ok but if you dont feel comfortable with it then you can get a product called Reptisafe. Which is just a water conditioner. (I personally use RO. But I already had a system in place.)

The Pothos are really common and easy to keep. I tend to look for plants that do well indoors or in the shade. I currently have a species of Camellia thats been doing really well. It seems to get enough ambient light from the windows in the room to thrive. The chams seem to really like it.

 

[Daddio53]

I think people who are pushy about insisting you absolutely must have a cage are just telling you what they like, and not so much what is right. It truly ought to be about the chameleon, and not the way someone wants you to do it. I live in Colorado where our humidity is only 3-12% on average. I would have to mist continuously with a screen cage or my chameleon would shrink like a raisin, yet there are some who still insist I should use a screen cage. That is absurd. I'm going to have to say, go with what you think is right, and not what you are told to believe. You need to keep the humidity up in your chameleon's enclosure. Just be sure you actually get an enclosure that is made for keeping a reptile. They are built with proper flow through ventilation, which is vital to your reptile. Also be sure to get an enclosure that is tall enough for your chameleon. Don't skimp on this because you need to make room for the animal you have chosen to be responsible for. I have a screen cage which I made for outdoor use to give my cham a place outside to enjoy real sunshine. She is terrified of the outdoors though, so it doesn't get much use. Her glass enclosure is a veritable jungle with Umbrella Plants and Pothos vines that are 4-6 feet long and run down and back up again, giving many places for hiding out. Despite what I've been preached, er told, they do not hold enough moisture to be okay. I still have to use a fogger to keep the humidity up. Well, choose wisely after doing due diligence, and don't allow yourself to be bullied into doing what you don't believe is right. Cheers.

 

[UnchosenOne]

So those cages have decent ventilation enough though no screen sides now? Haven't seen one in person just curious. Do they have some small holes in them or something?

 

[Daddio53]

Look to the left and read the Chameleon Care Section concerning Water & Humidity. It is interesting that there is information concerning how difficult it might be o keep the humidity level high enough, especially when using your AC or furnace. It suggests covering three sides of the screen cage with shower curtain or other plastic to keep the humidity levels up. I think that kind of says a lot. I only bring that up, because I feel the screen cage champions will try to make it sound totally unnecessary to worry about humidity, and that despite being in a desert or the dryest place anywhere, the plants in the cage will make it just fine. The article basically refutes that. I know this makes me sound like a radical screen cage hater and a glass enclosure snob, but who I am is a realist. Do whatever makes you happy. Will that be what's best for your chameleon? It all depends upon the relative humidity where you are. I would think that you would surely have plenty of humidity in the summer in Wisconsin. I know I can hardly breathe because of the humidity when I get back there in the county. In the winters I remember having bloody noses every day because it was so dry. Maybe you could have both enclosures and give your chameleon the best of both worlds.

 

[pigglett79]

I wouldn't say that glass is bad, if built for ventilation; however for a veiled chameleon you will not find a glass terrarium big enough. You would have to build your own. They get very large and require a lot of space.

 

[Daddio53]

I wouldn't say that glass is bad, if built for ventilation; however for a veiled chameleon you will not find a glass terrarium big enough. You would have to build your own. They get very large and require a lot of space.

You don't think a 24X24X48 would be big enough? How much bigger do you think it would need to be, because the go to guy for veileds says he keeps his in a 24X24X48. I realize Veiled Chameleons can reach 18-24 inches in length. In that case, I do not think there is a commercially made enclosure available. I've seen much larger enclosures in use at pet shops, but most are built for them. In that case, I would concede that a mesh cage would be cheaper and easier to build, but I still don't think you could control the humidity unless you make your whole house a swampy jungle due to the high humidity. Again I am talking about where I live, which is high desert in Colorado. I live at the same altitude that my chameleon came from, roughly 6,000 feet above sea level. I am as montane as my little chameleon is. The only difference is, she came from a relative humidity of 80%, and where I live it is only 3-12%, making a mesh cage impossible when it comes to maintaining a 70-80%humidity level. I also don't think you would get the humidity high enough in Arizona in the Phoenix area. It is just too dry, except during the monsoons when it is very high for 3-5 weeks.

 

[fluxlizard]

I'm not sure veileds always have 80% humidity- if fact I really doubt it. There are published accounts of these lizards being found in areas where there is almost no vegetation or anything except the practically dead twig they are sitting on in areas that haven't rained in several years as well as the cooler, more lush and humid spots.

Just from looking at photos here on the forums of some of the more experienced keepers who choose to use glass- I also don't think most glass keepers provide as much room as most screen keepers. That is more a judgement of quality of life rather than needs of the animals.

I myself started breeding veileds and panthers and carpets and quads and montiums and jacksons 20 years ago in 29 gallon tall aquaria. They were healthy- some of the veileds were the healthiest you've ever seen even though they were by my standards today, pretty darn cramped. I used tanks because the breeder who introduced me to chameleons also used tanks that size.

But I was able to set up what they needed- thermo gradients, plants, etc. and they seemed pretty content. One of the forum members who boasts some of the longest lived veileds ever used(uses?) similar sized aquaria.

So it isn't what I'd call the "needs" of the animal when it comes to size of enclosure- if it finds what it wants it will be content in something smaller. Larger than what the animal is content with becomes a judgement call made by the keeper and has largely to do with imagination about what the lizard experiences as far as quality of life is concerned rather than what the animal actually needs (and most will seek to go through screen or glass occasionally- I'm talking about contentment most of the day most days).

But these days I much prefer 30x30x48" high enclosures for veileds, it is beautiful to see the chameleons stretch out and walk someplace, and I like to think I am providing a higher quality of life for the lizards. Some large male veileds will appear a little cramped even in a 24x24" rather than 30x30 to me nowadays- I have a large male that must be nearly 2' who is in a temporary 24x24x36 because I had the fire this year and my focus is on rebuilding my building before winter sets in before moving on to permanent cages and I wish he were in something a little larger. But he's fine in what he is in for now.

But that is why I use screen- cheap for size and can be kept outdoors. In my living room, I would have gone with glass and probably custum built something (maybe something clever with an open front that was still inescapable)- but I don't keep my chameleons there.

As far as glass enclosures not drying out and getting musty- this was never a problem in my tanks and I didn't even have side vents. If it is a problem in someone elses, I tend to think they are misting too much. I misted lightly morning and evening and ran a drip for 20-30 minutes which collected in a catch bowl. Puddles are bad and newspaper not drying out in a couple of hours and the tank not drying out completely between dampening means there is too much water being used. Everything should be dry within a couple of hours after misting or the end of the drip, except the water in the catch bowl. The drip, the water evaporating from the newspaper after mist, and the potted plants all raise the humidity enough without soaking everything several times a day. Even my mountain species did great on that misting and dripping schedule and did not have dampness problems. Maybe it is more challenging to balance things in a dry part of the country though.

Those are just my thoughts anyway.

Edit- and before this becomes a recommendation for 29 gallon tanks- I no longer use them and I don't recommend anyone else do so. Quality of life is an important consideration and my post is meant to balance the point of view that chameleons NEED huge enclosures, rather than a recommendation to use small ones. In his panther chameleon book, ferguson points out that in the labratory, enclosures as small as 10 gallon aquaria have worked for maintenance and reproduction of that species, but my opinion is just because it can work doesn't mean that is the target we should all be aiming for. Still there is a middle ground where rules are sort of guidelines and can give a little either way.

 

[teejayteej]

ok ...just what to touch back in on this one ... I have to admit one of the reasons I am thinking of the screen enclosures is because they are bigger. I feel like that if you can't always give them time to roam on a free range then you need to give them room to move and explore. i picked my house because of the yard space for my dogs to run in, the house itself is of a nice size for our family to have room as well. so if you choose these things for about space for yourself and the other animals as I have done then you would want the same for the new members of the family.
I am looking into larger cages but i think that I am leaning to custom made I have seen "Zaphod's" (a member on here) and find that I like the space and the design of these. they look nice and provide quality of living space as well.
you just need to decide what is right for you, you can start with the basics and grow with you cham into a better enclosure as you both take the time to know each other.
Just though I would expand my thoughts on this.

 

[ridgebax1]

I have a screen cage too and in addition to size it is much lighter to handle. A glass cage that size will be very heavy without anything in it. Once you put in some plants etc. that will increase the weight. I used that shrinking window film insulation on the back and plan to put it on the sides as well if low humidity remains a problem. The more live plants you have the better humidity will be too.

 

[fluxlizard]

I feel like that if you can't always give them time to roam on a free range then you need to give them room to move and explore.

That's what changed my thinking on it also- one day it hit me that my animals spend 99% of their lives inside those enclosures. Once that really sunk in I started thinking differently about quality of life. Maybe it is nitpicking- but quality of life considerations go beyond the basic needs of the animal and involve a judgement call on the part of the owner.

Also I learned a few things along the way. For example- I discovered that my bearded dragons do not begin to behave naturally, especially socially, until they are in cages at least 8' long x 30" wide. Behavior is quite different than in 4'x30" cages. The dragons hardly walk anywhere in the big cages- they jog and only walk to move the last few inches. This in turn gets the males really excited to see the jogging girls- they head bob more, females arm-wave more- just lots more social behavior all the way around goes on in the 8' long cages and the lizards behave differently. Not many dragons in the world are being kept in enclosures anywhere near that size and I'd say their needs are being met- but for me, a very good quality of life means 8' enclosures for bearded dragons.

I feel similarly about chameleons- if the animal is healthy, it's needs are being met. But quality of life is important too.

Really- I think for chams the size of panthers and veileds 4' long cages would be really nice when it is possible, and I have used cages this long a few times in the past. It is thrilling to me to watch one stretch out and move along the branches. You can't see that behavior in a 2' wide cage.

 

[Xenti]

As for keeping water from going everywhere. I line the sides and back with that black weed tarp. The one that feels more like a cloth (dont remember the brand) actually repels water. But lets air still go through.

How do you get it to sit probably in place?

I'm having a reptibreeze and thinking of useing the weed trap too

 

[Big Gulp]

As for keeping water from going everywhere. I line the sides and back with that black weed tarp. The one that feels more like a cloth (dont remember the brand) actually repels water. But lets air still go through.

How do you keep it in place? (edit...just saw the question was just asked) And do you line it from the inside or outside?

Thanks all for the replies. Much appreciated!

 

[Xenti]

He gave me the tip to use painters tape