My gravid female

[Fearaffect]

Ok, so I've talked with Sandy(ChamNorWest) and shes at a lost to what has happened here.

My female mated with Kern like 35days ago, she started doin her diggin, several test holes and the "what not" and looked like she dug one she liked. Was backed into it all night Tues. Woke up, she was on her perch showing pink coloring, so I figured, COOL finally laid them eggs. Well, I searched, and searched and finally removed all soil(organic potting soil, Exo-Terra Bed o' Beast type, and ZooMed Excavating Clay) by hand, and no eggs!! She is skinny now, with indent in her abdomen.......WHAT HAPPENED????
I even sifted with a screen mesh to find the eggs, and nothing!! I put her back in lay tub...as per Sandy in hopes that she still has eggs and will lay. She didnt have a large poop, as Sandy thought that is what happened since she's seen it happen like that.
Any help would be much appreciated!!

Oh yea, this is her first breeding also, shes about 11 months

 

[jojackson]

First off, understand this is coming out of my butt since I know nothing of gravid chams Ok. Its a question!
Is it possible you mistook ovulation for her being gravid? Do chams of any species show
swelling during ovulation?

This was just the first thing that came to mind Brye, Im sure you know thats common with snake folk, they mistake ovulation for being gravid, remove the male then imagine eggs (in egglayers) have been reabsorbed when nothing happens and the snake appears skinny/normal again.

Im NOT implying this is the case (see opening statement), just curious, hoping somebody who knows can tell us.

 

[Fearaffect]

Dont know.....but when I bred her, afterwords she turned non receptive and wouldn't breed again. There looked to be eggs protruding from her abdomen, so I'm gonna say that she was gravid.......and since she was diggin, that would suggest gravid also........

 

[beeze]

My female would not lay in her laying bin, instead she dug a hole in her plant and laid there. If there was a plant around you may want to check it. That’s all I can think of. Good luck.

 

[jojackson]

Perhaps theres a period after mating where ovulation occures, sperm is 'held' till ready, then fertilisation takes place? Again its a question only.
Turning non receptive having mated makes sense, not sure about the digging, instinctively 'getting ready' maybe?

big meal-a-thon you missed looked like eggs? Just guessing here...

As far as im aware once eggs pass the oviducts, they get layed or the animal dies, I dont think its possible for it to 're-absorb' eggs.?

Beeze might have something there? Good thinkin 99!

 

[Miss Lily]

First off, understand this is coming out of my butt since I know nothing of gravid chams Ok. Its a question!
Is it possible you mistook ovulation for her being gravid? Do chams of any species show
swelling during ovulation?

jojackson, I completely understand your reasoning here! Don't know if there's any truth in this, but I believe Lily showed signs when she was ovulating. She would look bloated and ill between 3 to 4 weeks before both her clutches. The first time I thought she was ill as she would hide in the plants and she would look and feel really 'solid'. Her colouring was also very dark, but not gravid. I realised what was happening the second time I saw it. I was certainly glad that I keep records of any slight changes in her behaviour and looks - it helped me a great deal as I knew almost to the day when she would lay her second clutch.

I know that this doesn't help FearAffect, but I wanted to share my experience of this!

 

[jojackson]

Good stuff Lil, its data like that, recorded for future refrence that often sheds light on little understood aspects of reptile reproduction/behaviour etc.
New discoveries have been made from the personal records of reptile keepers!

 

[Fearaffect]

jojackson, I completely understand your reasoning here! Don't know if there's any truth in this, but I believe Lily showed signs when she was ovulating. She would look bloated and ill between 3 to 4 weeks before both her clutches. The first time I thought she was ill as she would hide in the plants and she would look and feel really 'solid'. Her colouring was also very dark, but not gravid. I realised what was happening the second time I saw it. I was certainly glad that I keep records of any slight changes in her behaviour and looks - it helped me a great deal as I knew almost to the day when she would lay her second clutch.

I know that this doesn't help FearAffect, but I wanted to share my experience of this!

It does, no matter what it is........

No,she didnt lay in plant area, checked.....
I saw eggs protruding from her, so she was with eggs......

 

[yoza717]

If you are sure she is a lot skinnier and there is nothing in the laying bin, I would double check the plant pots. One of my females cover up her nest site so neatly, you would hardly know she already laid.
Only other explanation I can think of is that she was able to escape, lay eggs and get back in the cage.

In the future, I would weigh the chams to check for weight fluctuations. I learned my lesson with a female that surprised me with an infertile clutch....I thought she was still growing, since she was only 6 months old. I got the laying bin in there in the nick of time, she dug and laid within 4 hours.

 

[Fearaffect]

If you are sure she is a lot skinnier and there is nothing in the laying bin, I would double check the plant pots. One of my females cover up her nest site so neatly, you would hardly know she already laid.
Only other explanation I can think of is that she was able to escape, lay eggs and get back in the cage.

In the future, I would weigh the chams to check for weight fluctuations. I learned my lesson with a female that surprised me with an infertile clutch....I thought she was still growing, since she was only 6 months old. I got the laying bin in there in the nick of time, she dug and laid within 4 hours.

The thing is, I monitored her pretty much all night....and she was backed into the hole from around 8pm to 7am...... she went in big and bulging, and out skinny.........but no eggs maybe she just had some bad gas!!! lol

 

[kinyonga]

Did she fill in the hole?

 

[Fearaffect]

Did she fill in the hole?

Yea, she filled it in. She didnt fill in several of her test holes. Like I said, I hand scoop all the soil outa there, and checked(3times) the plants container. Shes now back in her cage with a temp. lay tub in case she decides to start diggin again, then I can retransfer her over to the container.

I have another female that looks like she's ready to burst....but Sandy said she looks "eggy" but not necessary gravid, even though she bred 4 times with my male and turns unreceptive when I try to reintroduce him to her. She pink coloring right now, but changes when she sees him........pics r of the second female and male.

 

[jojothefirst]

i no when my cham layed eggs recently it was very hard to find even tho there was only one place they could have been.
is it at all possible that you missed them and through them out?
could you takeher to the vet to get a x ray done, that way you would def no if theres any eggs inside her.

 

[Vegas Chad]

Well, if she mated chances are that she had eggs if it was that long ago. The fact that you say she was massive and could see (did you feel?) eggs says that she likely had them, that and the whole digging a hole thing.

Did you dump out all the dirt in the laying bin? Mine always dig right to the very bottom usually in a nook between ridges (I use a trash can) I have almost missed eggs too, so its not impossible that somehow you may have. If you are sure that they are not in the bin then check the plants. Chameleons are not cats; they don’t dig a hole to drop a log into into it... They gotta be somewhere! LoL

 

[Fearaffect]

i no when my cham layed eggs recently it was very hard to find even tho there was only one place they could have been.
is it at all possible that you missed them and through them out?
could you takeher to the vet to get a x ray done, that way you would def no if theres any eggs inside her.

I sifted the soil with a screen sifter......nothing I'll take pics of her tomorrow so every1 can see how skinny she is now......

 

[Fearaffect]

Well, if she mated chances are that she had eggs if it was that long ago. The fact that you say she was massive and could see (did you feel?) eggs says that she likely had them, that and the whole digging a hole thing.

Did you dump out all the dirt in the laying bin? Mine always dig right to the very bottom usually in a nook between ridges (I use a trash can) I have almost missed eggs too, so its not impossible that somehow you may have. If you are sure that they are not in the bin then check the plants. Chameleons are not cats; they don’t dig a hole to drop a log into into it... They gotta be somewhere! LoL

LOL, I put the soil back in ...I'm using 5 gallon containers so not like theres a whole lot of places to hide them.....I'll take pics of the lay bin tomorrow....and the plant was potted and soil in the pot was a little dry and firm....no digging in there at all(to small also). These eggs must be the smallest ones around........I spent an hour hunting for them...........thats how careful I was.........
Why cant Panthers be like boas and Rudis......lol

 

[Vegas Chad]

hellooooo they are chameleon eggs. They change color so you cant see them!

 

[Fearaffect]

hellooooo they are chameleon eggs. They change color so you cant see them!

U know that could be the case!! why didnt i think of that!?? Here, they're probably right in front of me the whole time..........dang eggs...

I "COULD" just let my monitors in the bin, they would find them real fast if there is any.....lol

 

[jojackson]

Brye, when ya say you saw them protruding..do you mean, she looked like a bag of marbels, or you actually saw an egg in her butt?
All I can think of is could crickets have eaten them?
Maybe it was gas? Dont feed her any more bean burritos dude!

 

[Fearaffect]

Heres pics of her now..............